Newbie building a gun, need help.

Build a homemade water gun or water balloon launcher and tell us about it.
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Pyrotek
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Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2008 5:51 pm

Newbie building a gun, need help.

Post by Pyrotek » Fri Jun 20, 2008 6:10 pm

Hello everyone, this is my first post here.

For a few years now i have been attending a summer camp. This year i will be a counselor in training. At this summer camp, once every week there is a huge watergun battle in which everyone participates. There are a variety of guns used, including a pair of CPS series guns owned by one of the counselors, who usually gives them to people who don't own guns themselves.

Last year, someone brought a homemade gun. It was fairly simple as i recall, not many moving parts or anything groundbreaking, but it got me interested in building my own gun. I currently have a Aquashock Arctic Blast and the matching expansion backpack, but i really love the massive Monster XL. Unfortunately the only way to obtain a huge gun with such a large output would be to build one, as they are very rare and expensive. Alas, fall came, then winter and i lost interest. However, in a week and a half (not much time i know) i will be going to the same camp and i am planning to have a gun of my own design with me.

What i have now:

-I have plenty of PVC and access to home depot/lowes hardware store.
-I have access to epoxy, tools, a drill press, pretty much anything short of an actual super soaker assembly line.
-I have an old airsoft SL8 which has been gutted of all usable mechanisms (gearbox, barrel, etc). It's ok because it was a fairly cheap (70 $) knockoff of a CA.
-I have a full week of free days to complete the project.

If you were wondering why i included the SL8 in that list, it is because i am considering using the stock/trigger/body of the SL8 for the gun. If you don't know what an SL8 looks like:

Image
I can remove the barrel, and whatever needs to be removed to make room.

What i need is instructions on how a mechanism utilizing a pressure chamber can be built. I see that this forum is pretty active, so i plan to update the thread as work progresses.

Oh by the way, i don't want any powered pumps as i plan to use either a crank or a traditional super soaker-style pump.

In case i wasn't clear, i want advice whether to build an APH or a CPH or something else.
Last edited by Pyrotek on Fri Jun 20, 2008 6:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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SSCBen
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Re: Newbie building a gun, need help.

Post by SSCBen » Fri Jun 20, 2008 6:40 pm

Welcome to SSC! Glad you found us. :)

You didn't seem to specify much about what sort of water gun or pressure system you want. Air pressure and CPS (constant pressure systems) are the main categories. Neither is inherently more powerful than the other. Air pressure has drop-off (range and water output "drop-off" over the duration of the shot) so CPS is typically seen as functionally superior. Simple air pressure however is easier to make and doesn't involve any special parts that types of constant pressure require.

A basic air pressure homemade is here: http://www.sscentral.org/homemade/aph/

A basic CPS homemade is here: http://www.sscentral.org/homemade/supercps.html

Both designs use normal Super Soaker pumping.

Designs created to include a reservoir rather than use a backpack can be built like this: http://forums.sscentral.org/t4728/

I would not suggest modifying an existing airsoft gun frame to work with a water gun. The components of airsoft guns are significantly different than those of high performance water guns. The main difference is the size of the parts. Airsoft valves, tubing, etc., is rather thin, well below the ideal thicknesses of a high performance water gun. Water guns are larger in general than airsoft guns and the case is not designed to hold any volume. You'd have to mount water tanks onto the case, which probably is difficult and impractical. You'd also waste a perfectly good $70 airsoft gun. You shouldn't need to spend $70 to build a new water gun. ;)

I think something like the APH linked above would be best for you. Your time is relatively limited and you might not want to order the latex tubing required by the CPS design. The APH uses parts that are easy to find in any hardware or home improvement store. And the APH is easily more powerful than anything manufacturers made, while still being practical (though simple in many ways).

If you don't mind ordering latex tubing I'd go with a CPH. The tubing usually can be there in a day or two if you live in the US. The power is equal to better than an APH, except in maximum water output (but it's close).

If you had anything else in mind don't hesitate to ask about it. ;)

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Drenchenator
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Re: Newbie building a gun, need help.

Post by Drenchenator » Sat Jun 21, 2008 3:06 am

Welcome to SSC!

I also have to recommend against using an airsoft gun for a body. The parts won't fit too well, and it'll just be an unneeded complication to the whole thing. But that doesn't mean the gun won't look good or impressive!

All the advice you need is in the guides Ben linked to. Both are the most detailed available. If you have anymore questions, don't hesitate to ask. Good luck with the build!
The Drenchenator, also known as Lt. Col. Drench.

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Silence
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Re: Newbie building a gun, need help.

Post by Silence » Sat Jun 21, 2008 4:19 am

Welcome to the Super Soaker Central forums! :)

You can't get Monster XL volume in an SL8 frame. If you want to have a ton of power and capacity, you'll want to ditch any resemblance to real guns. However, it's possible to have a mediocre water gun somewhat integrated into the frame.

(For those who don't know, "CA" stands for Classic Army, a popular airsoft gun manufacturer. I was under the impression that they use metal frames, not plastic ones, which could be a problem if the frame needs to be cut.)

The SL8 is large for a firearm/airsoft gun but has virtually no usable space as a water gun since it's too narrow. So you'll at least need to replace the magazine with a larger pressure chamber, which can be painted black, although it'll be huge. The pump can slide in front of the magazine. The reservoir would need to be in a backpack.

Ultimately it won't be possible to build a good water gun into this frame. The end result will be closer to a squirt gun or a small water pistol. As Drenchenator said, a well-done and painted homemade water gun looks cool enough and more intimidating anyway. :)

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cantab
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Re: Newbie building a gun, need help.

Post by cantab » Sat Jun 21, 2008 1:36 pm

If you want a homemade in a proper case, I suggest just getting the biggest cheapest no-name water gun you can find. Like the CPS ripoffs that cost 5 bucks. Gut it and put your own internals inside.

aEx155
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Re: Newbie building a gun, need help.

Post by aEx155 » Sat Jun 21, 2008 3:10 pm

Technically, you could turn this into a gun; if you used it as the handheld portion of a backpack PR water gun, then you could make it work. You wouldn't have to fit much into the case; just a valve and nozzle assembly. Not much, right?

If there was enough spcase, you could mount a pump in there also, and attach a tube leading from there to two check valves in the backpack portion...

It's possible, it just takes a bit of ingenuity.

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cantab
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Re: Newbie building a gun, need help.

Post by cantab » Sat Jun 21, 2008 3:19 pm

Also, while it should be fine for a summer camp, I wouldn't advise walking around the street with that thing - it looks too much like a real gun (and it looks exactly like an air gun since that's what it is!). I don't know the law in the states, but in the UK, for example, it's illegal to carry anything that looks like a real gun in public. That's why water guns nowadays tend to have distinctly un-gun-like shapes.

Pyrotek
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Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2008 5:51 pm

Re: Newbie building a gun, need help.

Post by Pyrotek » Sat Jun 21, 2008 4:19 pm

Thank you for the replies. I have decided to go with the APH design and i plan to go the home depot on monday to pick up all the pvc/parts i need. I think i already have some of the right diameter pvc and the solvent-welding materials. I will probably ditch the SL8, because, as mention it is too narrow.

To clarify, i wasn't planning on using any of the existing internals from the airsoft gun as they have been stripped out and sold. All that is left is the stock and the basic frame. Even so, i might decide to build a frame out of wood. I also plan to use a backpack tank. I read through both the guides for the APH and the tank built from a coleman solar shower and they were both easy to follow.

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SSCBen
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Re: Newbie building a gun, need help.

Post by SSCBen » Sun Jun 22, 2008 2:45 am

Yeah, I was a little confused by what you wanted to do with the airsoft gun. I didn't realize it was just a case even though you said it was gutted. We've had some discussion about converting airsoft or paintball guns to water guns in the past and I was too quick to jump on it.

Let us know if you have any questions about the building process. Don't hesitate to think of new ways to improve the design and be sure to let us know if you think of anything good. ;)

Pyrotek
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Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2008 5:51 pm

Re: Newbie building a gun, need help.

Post by Pyrotek » Tue Jun 24, 2008 12:12 pm

Update: I will be abondoning this project (at least for the time being) because my friend agreed to trade me his CPS2700 in return for swapping the new videocard and power supply he got on newegg for his PC.

I really love people who don't know how to use computers.

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Silence
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Re: Newbie building a gun, need help.

Post by Silence » Tue Jun 24, 2008 2:20 pm

Well, at least you got the better end of the deal. I'd suggest removing the huge plastic piece on the front as Ben did to his CPS 2700 - it has no purpose and it doesn't look particularly appealing.

Installing a GPU and PSU is easy enough. Replacing the GPU or CPU heatsink is a little harder. :)

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