Nozzel Help

Build a homemade water gun or water balloon launcher and tell us about it.
Nicky
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Nozzle Help

Post by Nicky » Wed Mar 01, 2006 10:21 pm

Hey everyone!

I'm currently buying part to make a homemade soaker and I'm trying to find the part must of you used for the nozzle on the http://www.mcmaster.com site. I'm talking about little female threaded part Ben use as a nozzle. I just can't find it so I would be delighted if someone could post a link to the real thing. Thx.
Last edited by Nicky on Wed Mar 01, 2006 10:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Little type...

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m15399
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Post by m15399 » Wed Mar 01, 2006 11:13 pm

Funny, I can't seem to find it. I would recommend buying all the parts at your local Lowes or other hardware store (Lowes is the best for plumbing). They will have the part you're looking for.

Ben will probably have some alternate suggestions for nozzles that will work better, so wait for him.

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SSCBen
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Post by SSCBen » Wed Mar 01, 2006 11:14 pm

Are you talking about threaded endcaps? Those would be easier to get at a local store as opposed to online. Do you mean homemade water gun nozzles like the APH?: http://www.sscentral.org/tech/homemades/aph_2.jpg

Because you are ordering online, it would be more logical that you are ordering a conical nozzle such as the image shown below:

Image

You can get a fire hose nozzle exactly like the one I used in my water guns Supercannon I and the unfinished Supercannon II by buying part number 6424T62 at McMaster-Carr (alternatively, search for "fire hose nozzles). That is a 1 1/2" ID nozzle and is not only cheap ($6) for it's massive size, but near perfect in design! Yes, the nozzle is 1/2" ID, but for larger and more powerful water guns you will need at least a nozzle that large for maximum performance. You can see me with Supercannon I and this nozzle in this old image: http://www.sscentral.org/images/dscn0288.jpg

If you are looking for something smaller, you can always get a garden hose nozzle as well. Part number 7678T2 on McMaster-Carr is much more expensive than the plastic nozzle I mentioned above ($13), as it is made from brass. The interior of the nozzle is rough, and that combined with the expensive price does not make ordering smaller conical nozzles from McMaster-Carr very worthwhile.

Amazon.com does have some fairly good "sweeper" nozzles on their website. These are small and do not have as small as an angle as the other conical nozzles, but any improvement on angle over the 90 degrees used in endcaps is substantial. I'll list a few examples below. Please be aware that I have not bought any of these nozzles and they may not be perfect for the project, but they are so cheap I don't figure it would matter much!

- http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00002 ... e&n=228013
- http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0009V ... e&n=284507
- http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000CS ... e&n=228013
- http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BW ... e&n=284507

The alternative to buying better nozzles online is finding them more locally. I have found the "sweeper" style nozzles before at local hardware stores and larger chain stores such as Lowes or Home Depot. The other nozzles would be harder to find (I don't suspect fire hose nozzles are in high demand).

Hope this helps! Let me know if you have any other questions.

Nicky
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Post by Nicky » Wed Mar 01, 2006 11:54 pm

First of all, thx for the quick reply. I was asking for a threaded endcap. I've saw a lot of "fancy" nozzle during my extensive research but unfortunately, the extremely high internal pressure would make most of them useless.

I'm living in Canada right now and we seem to be pretty retarded when talking about PVC pipe/coupling/fitting. I've went to 6 different "home/renovation center" and not only I've not found a single check valve but I've been told several times that "such exotic device surely doesn't exist". I've also been told by the "plumber specialist" in a store that 1 1/2 pipe does not exist either.

Anyway, I've put a 1 1/2 male threaded at the end of the canon and I should be able to find a couple of threaded endcaps somewhere.

I should be able to post a pic or two during the next couple of week. (With some stats hopefully :) )

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SSCBen
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Post by SSCBen » Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:04 am

Sounds great! I look forward to the pictures. Good luck with finishing the construction too.

As for those "specialists," I wouldn't return to those stores. If any of what you said is true, they certainly don't have any idea of what they are talking about. I might be blessed with a good local supply of most everything I need. I even have a plumbing supply store fairly close to where I live. Their prices are good, but buying from them is confusing because the store operates somewhat like a warehouse combined with a regular store.

Try looking for a plumbing supply store as opposed to a home improvement store. I am unsure of the stores' rarity, but they will have most everything you will ever need (unless you are looking for fire hose nozzles or rubber tubing which are obviously very uncommon requests).
I've saw a lot of "fancy" nozzle during my extensive research but unfortunately, the extremely high internal pressure would make most of them useless.
If you are referring to the conical nozzles when you say "fancy" nozzles, then you are incorrect. The high internal pressure would work much better with the conical nozzles. The conical nozzles have less "impact" than the flat, threaded endcaps. The water is eased through the nozzle rather than being forced through. That saves power that could have been lost.

Try a threaded endcap and then try a conical nozzle. You should be able to see a slight, but existing, difference in distance.

Nicky
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Post by Nicky » Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:40 am

[QUOTE=Ben]
If you are referring to the conical nozzles when you say "fancy" nozzles, then you are incorrect. The high internal pressure would work much better with the conical nozzles. The conical nozzles have less "impact" than the flat, threaded endcaps. The water is eased through the nozzle rather than being forced through. That saves power that could have been lost.
[QUOTE]

I wasn't thinking about that type of nozzle as “fancy”. Actually the only thing that is bothering me with the conical nozzle is the fact that I can't try several nozzle orifice sizes because otherwise I would be using one for sure.

I’m sorry if I can’t publish the blue print or the specs of the soaker for now but it is develop as a prototype of a soaker to be offer to the general public for pre-order somewhere near April.

In any case I should keep you updated and I will present it to the "Hardcore" user/collector community for comment in the aim of improvement in a really near future.
Last edited by Nicky on Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Typo again...

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SSCBen
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Post by SSCBen » Thu Mar 02, 2006 1:54 am

I wasn't thinking about that type of nozzle as “fancy”. Actually the only thing that is bothering me with the conical nozzle is the fact that I can't try several nozzle orifice sizes because otherwise I would be using one for sure.
Yes, you can try more than one orifice size. If you are looking to calculate the ideal nozzle orifice size, you can do that with the endcaps and then use the orifice there. That will still be approximately correct despite the design change. You also can drill different orifice sizes through brass or plastic nozzles easily. I mainly use endcaps for ease, but I also have a conical nozzle now to pull out when I want slightly better performance.
I’m sorry if I can’t publish the blue print or the specs of the soaker for now but it is develop as a prototype of a soaker to be offer to the general public for pre-order somewhere near April.

In any case I should keep you updated and I will present it to the "Hardcore" user/collector community for comment in the aim of improvement in a really near future.
Pre-order? So you intend to sell this? That sounds neat. Do you intend to sell the plans or to sell the water guns? I think you would have more success selling the water guns as opposed to the plans. ;)

Nicky
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Post by Nicky » Thu Mar 02, 2006 2:52 pm

Long story to a shorter one, at first, this project was for myself and for pleasure but along the path to successfully soak someone with a good homemade I got several friends and other persons that didn't know about homemade or thought it was too hard/costly/risky (investment give back) to try out, that asked me for a powerful device.

I went then to a development phase with the only goal to archive the best results. The first version was compact and lightweight but I was unable to proceed to the production phase because of the availability of most part that where truly exotic. (The cost for this one was near $400.00)

The second version is now heavier with a bigger PC and a better hand pump. The trigger is fully operational and convenient compared to straight ball valve and even most of the soaker on the market.

Anyway, I'm seeking to finish this prototype first then I will calculate the cost per unit and I will be able to send the first offer as I said near April. I'm planning on selling the gun and not the plans but it is really oriented to real "hardcore" player. The price will be fairly high. I'm not seeking profit here and unites are going to be sold at a price near the final cost. All I can say for now is that it won’t go for less then $200.00. The gun will be sold only to 18+ year old person as it’s so powerful that it must involve a good sense of responsibility.

The offer will last only for 1 month and after that I won't be taking any extra order so it's going to be a one shot occasion most collector and player won’t like to miss.

As I've got limited manufacture ability right now so I will have to hire 4-12 people to help me produce the quantity required depending of the total number of unites pre-ordered. That’s why the offer will be available for only a short period of time.

I don't know what will be the response to this soaker but one thing is sure; those who will get one will out range anyone and should have their power lust under control for a while.

Here are some features I can tell you about:

The gun is an air pressure homemade that will be able to take high pressure (compared to guns available on the market and even other homemade). It will have a trigger and will have a very simple but ergonomic look. It should also feature a good paint job (nothing looking like extraterrestrial technology) and a pump that wont leek and feature 2 modes, one for the volume and one for the high pressure. It's going to be heavy, it's going to be big and it’s going to be bold.

So as you can see I'm actually taking a path apart of other companies like Hasbro who are aiming at selling the biggest number of unites and where quality and power are not really big issues.

Plz keep in mind that this project may also never hit the market (I’m actually getting way too much e-mails asking for it, plz don’t e-mail me until the I present an offer) as I'm still working on the prototype and that I may not be aware of all the variables for now. What I mean is that the gun will perform like a beast but (as an example) it may not drive enough attention. Another example of what will affect this project will be the 2006 line of each other company.

In anyway, you should ear more about it soon ;) !

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SSCBen
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Post by SSCBen » Thu Mar 02, 2006 10:19 pm

Sounds great. My only complaint would be the price. I understand that Canadian prices seem higher than those of the United States' because of the exchange rates, but that 176.802 USD doesn't sound very attractive either. In my opinion, you should seriously try to reduce the price. Even my newest, most powerful water guns don't cost anywhere near that much. I suppose part of that price might be the rarity of the parts where you live, but you still should work to reduce the price.

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wetmonkey442
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Post by wetmonkey442 » Thu Mar 02, 2006 11:09 pm

Sorry, but you can easily make an APH (even a monster of an APH) for under $200 easily. I don't doubt that your design is sound and would produce a powerful gun, however I doubt you will get much buisness. Most members on these forums aren't willing to pay $200 for a water gun, no matter how powerful, and unfortunately the "hardcore" group of modders and scratchbuilders here are so "hardcore" that we would rather build our own than buy someone else's.

Sorry, but it's my opinion.

It truly look forward to updates about this gun and it's production progress. Pics would be appreciated!

Soak On

Nicky
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Post by Nicky » Thu Mar 02, 2006 11:33 pm

In fact, the price is high because of the constant high pressure the gun must "suffer". My estimation was in USD. I went through my bills a few minutes ago and the actual cost of the soaker is 187.97 USD. This does not include the trigger, the paint job, my time or any taxes.

You must understand that this soaker will be a real beast and safe to use. Most homemade are using one or several "weak" part (Using PVC and pressurized air IS dangerous and not recommended by any manufacture) that may proved to be dangerous in the long run and specially with the high pressure I'm intending to put in it and/or casual impact from the warfare. I'm not saying your homemade is not safe. I'm saying that I can't take that chance. This gun will be able to survive high impact and still be safe to use. Your safety is my priority.

Also consider the price of the last CPS 2000 that went on eBay. My soaker will outmatch this gun by tree times.

In any case I'm aware that this price is really high and I will try to cut down the price but not if the soaker quality suffer. Thx for the comment. Any useful comment from anyone is welcome.

Also, If I don't have a good response with this soaker, I will simply keep it for myself/close friends and everyone will be happy. :D
Last edited by Nicky on Thu Mar 02, 2006 11:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: As always, typo...

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wetmonkey442
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Post by wetmonkey442 » Fri Mar 03, 2006 12:03 am

I can understand an inflated price in terms of an increase in safety or performance, however so far you haven't explained any changes or improvements you will will be implementing. People will assume that your gun has nothing more to offer than a regular APH, and thus your buisness could suffer.

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DX
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Post by DX » Fri Mar 03, 2006 12:23 am

The gun will be sold only to 18+ year old person as it’s so powerful that it must involve a good sense of responsibility.
Might I mention that a huge majority of the most active homemade builders and users are under 18? Age has nothing to do with an individual's sense of responsibility. That will hurt your chances of making sales, at least here.

Homemades able to take high pressure do not command higher prices, because nearly every homemade is meant to take high pressure. What PSI do you plan on being able to support? Anything under 120 PSI is nothing new, with anything higher being a waste in a water gun. Higher than 120 PSI is usually reserved for water balloon launchers. And what are the "weak parts" that other homemades are using?

$200, any way you put it, is still far too high for an air pressure homemade. I could make a crazy APH for under $70, and most likely under $50. That $200 is enough for 6-10 basic APHs, or 3-5 good APHs, or 1-3 crazy ones.

As a last thought, many of us here are well versed with homemade affairs, so keep that in mind. [Don't forget that "some certain" members also happen to specialize in air pressure homemades :rolleyes: ]

Although I do still look forward to stats and especially images.
Mess With the Best, Get Soaked Like the Rest!

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wetmonkey442
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Post by wetmonkey442 » Fri Mar 03, 2006 12:42 am

Duxburian wrote:
As a last thought, many of us here are well versed with homemade affairs, so keep that in mind. [Don't forget that "some certain" members also happen to specialize in air pressure homemades :rolleyes: ]


:D A few of us might know what were talking about, Nicky.
I look forward to any updates about this gun. What will it be constructed of, PVC or some other type of material? Also, what kind of power are you estimating? How big will the chamber be, and how big will the pump be? Make sure to keep your ratios sensible.

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DX
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Post by DX » Fri Mar 03, 2006 12:49 am

Keep in mind that we can estimate and/or calculate certain stats based on information like pc size, so keep things like expected output accurate. :p

I am very interested in hearing about the range, length, and overall design of this new gun. Plus, pictures say a thousand words. :cool:
Mess With the Best, Get Soaked Like the Rest!

2004 Red Sox - World Series Champions
2007 Red Sox - World Series Champions!

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