Hey

General water gun discussion.
Athrun Zala
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Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 11:41 pm

Hey

Post by Athrun Zala » Fri Jan 15, 2010 11:46 pm

Hey all, I'm new here. XD I don't do much water gun wars (yet :p ). I used to go around the house when I was little shooting a little birdie water gun since we had no place to play, and now in our new house me and my siblings go out and play with our new water pistols/guns, and soak our two friends who come over regularly. :p I actually joined this forum to ask advice on how to build waterguns, but I'm pretty sure I'll end up being part of the community. :D so hi all!

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JuchTurtles
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Re: Hey

Post by JuchTurtles » Sat Jan 16, 2010 1:11 am

Welcome to SSC, Athrun Zala! Hope to see your battle reports soon!

Do you live in the northern or southern hemisphere? Most live in northern, so the forum isn't that active right now.
The name's Juch, just Juch.
Also known as Commander JuchJawsTurtles, commander of the C0BALT TiDE team in The Ocean Volcano Union.
SPLASH! You're dead!

Athrun Zala
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Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 11:41 pm

Re: Hey

Post by Athrun Zala » Sat Jan 16, 2010 1:13 pm

Used to live in the northern, now I live in the southern. Seasons are switched around. :p

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C-A_99
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Re: Hey

Post by C-A_99 » Sat Jan 16, 2010 5:34 pm

If you have a sizable armory already, you could get started by inviting friends over as if hosting any old party which is how I started off. Formal team setups don't seem to work for some people, including me as many don't bother to get water blasters. (It may be possible that lending soakers out gets people to get lazy though, I don't really know)

There's quite some documentation on homemades around the site and throughout the forums. When you're ready to start a project you can post a thread to track it, update, get ideas/advice, etc. Many areas outside the U.S. tend not to have the parts you may need for a homemade which can be troublesome and require expensive substitutions (or importing), and I can't help too much there.

Welcome to SSC and best wishes for your water warfare.

Athrun Zala
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 11:41 pm

Re: Hey

Post by Athrun Zala » Sun Jan 17, 2010 1:08 pm

Thanks.

I don't really have alot of friends here, since we just moved, but mostly, it's like me and my siblings (which is 5 of us, including 2 little ones) against my friend and his two sisters, and sometimes his friend. But they don't have water guns so they have to improvise. such as stealing one of ours or using the hose. :p

but I wanted to make a custom water gun that I could fit into a case to be a rifle, maybe something like this.

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JuchTurtles
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Re: Hey

Post by JuchTurtles » Sun Jan 17, 2010 8:34 pm

Interesting design. That would be cool to build, even though you'd need a pressure chamber somewhere (or you could just pressurize a reservoir).
The name's Juch, just Juch.
Also known as Commander JuchJawsTurtles, commander of the C0BALT TiDE team in The Ocean Volcano Union.
SPLASH! You're dead!

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C-A_99
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Re: Hey

Post by C-A_99 » Sun Jan 17, 2010 11:12 pm

Depending on your needs for performance and capacity, most high-end blasters would not be able to simply fit in a case like you showed. Even when using a backpack as a reservoir, you'll need extra space onboard for the pressure chamber, and a lengthy design is often unecessary.

Athrun Zala
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Re: Hey

Post by Athrun Zala » Mon Jan 18, 2010 1:45 am

I'm not sure. I was thinking about making something that would be able to shoot a longer blast than our water pistols, since the range is pretty limited, nothing too fancy, as sometimes I like coolness of a water gun. (that pic is a picture of a Star Trek Federation rifle, as well as we were planning on getting Federation outfits XD)

I also thought it would be neat to have a big water cannon thing with a big stream (or something resembling a bazooka), so I think I might try out something on the site here.

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JuchTurtles
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Re: Hey

Post by JuchTurtles » Mon Jan 18, 2010 1:18 pm

Well, it sounds like you want something like SuperCannon II, but I wouldn't build that to use in wars. I think that an APH is good, because that will easily outrange a pistol. And APHs look kinda like the Star Trek rifle you showed.

Not exactly a bazooka, but still good. :-)

Also, unlike a bazooka, it has lots of shot time, and if you add more PCs then you'll have even longer shot times. (PC means Pressure Chamber)

Now, with an APH, you could build an onboard reservoir if desired. These could be made of bottles (2+ liters; I suggest at least 4!), or pipe. Or you could just build a backpack.

Look at the APH guide in homemades. Read everything. And good luck on building.
The name's Juch, just Juch.
Also known as Commander JuchJawsTurtles, commander of the C0BALT TiDE team in The Ocean Volcano Union.
SPLASH! You're dead!

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C-A_99
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Re: Hey

Post by C-A_99 » Mon Jan 18, 2010 7:08 pm

The SCII is certainly usable in wars, but becomes somewhat useless after the pressure has been used since it takes a long time to re-pressurize. Perhaps a SCII style homemade with a pump (and the whole thing downsized to be more ergonomical) would work better. You could fill up the water, power up the air tank to very high pressure, then after the first shot relieve some pressure so that it's possible to pump back the air. These homemades tend to be pretty large and not ergonomical though.

I'd suggest the backpack for most homemades unless you have a way of securely attaching a reservoir onboard without making the homemade unbalanced and heavy. Since homemades demand more waterpower, the backpack is a good idea to get the weight off the blaster. Resevoirs made of pipe tend to be pretty heavy and not hold that much water.

For the compact blaster, I'd say that stock blasters do the job there. Homemades are difficult to build small, and small ones won't get that much power anyway. Triggers are already difficult to build and are even more difficult to do in a compact design. (meaning that your first homemade may not have a trigger; read up the APH and other homemade articles for details)

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cantab
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Re: Hey

Post by cantab » Tue Jan 19, 2010 12:17 am

Athrun Zala wrote:but I wanted to make a custom water gun that I could fit into a case to be a rifle, maybe something like this.
Water blasters tend to be fatter, since they need to hold a good volume of water. A long, slim, sleek rifle-like design may look cool, but it just won't have the internal space for large-capacity parts that give best performance.

If you do want to go with a rifle-like design anyway, I suggest you use a pressure chamber with a piston separating air and water. Such a design is used in the Water Warriors Aqua Master series, and also on a larger scale in Supercannon II. It's probably the design that lends itself most to a long, narrow, horizontal pressure chamber. Ordinary air pressure chambers need to be upright (since air floats, so the outlet to the nozzle must be at the lowest point), while cylindrical CPS chambers want a wide diameter (3 or more inches).

Such guns are, however, a little tricky to build. From what I've heard a major problem is the piston rotating about its diameter, becoming 'sideways' in the cylinder. You also ideally need to provide for pumping both water (to the front side of the piston) and air (to pressurise the back side and boost power).
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Arsenal:
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zeda.beta
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Re: Hey

Post by zeda.beta » Tue Jan 19, 2010 1:09 am

The supercannonII is a really nice gun, but if you are trying to just outshoot a water pistol, you might want to go with a store bought gun, as C-A 99 said.

The flash flood has a decent amount of power and shot time, plus the riot blast would sort of help with the bazooka problem.

Other than that you could follow the guides in the homemade section and see which design would work best for your situation.

-Zeda
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
Quack damn you.

Athrun Zala
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Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 11:41 pm

Re: Hey

Post by Athrun Zala » Tue Jan 19, 2010 2:35 am

well, I guess I will take a look at all the guns there.

btw, does anybody have a design sketch of the inside of a water gun so I can see what the guide is talking about on how a water gun works? looking at all the descriptions of parts is kinda confusing to an uninformed person. >_>
Last edited by Athrun Zala on Wed Jan 20, 2010 12:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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C-A_99
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Re: Hey

Post by C-A_99 » Tue Jan 19, 2010 3:36 am

The Flash Flood and Vindicator are your best choices for store bought soakers that's available right now. (the FF is prone to problems but they aren't difficult to fix if you can find good springs; don't worry about it until the time comes) Otherwise, the CPS blasters on eBay are the best stock blasters you can find without building anything. The only real reason you'd use a small water gun is for concealability and as a backup, and even those are not as small as the dollar store squirt guns you find. I'm talking about air pressure small blasters, which are always preferable over the squirt guns.

The drawings you are seeing are drawn out to show the PVC pipe layouts of said water guns. PVC works quite simply: there is long pipe which is cut into lengths as needed, and there are fittings to connect the pipes to. Fittings can be things like elbows, tees, and what not to change direction of the pipe, split it, etc. Valves are also fittings, and the pipe is shoved into the fitting, sealing a connection. There are also parts that thread (screw) together. SSC's PVC basics article explains this in detail.

Water blasters also work quite simply. An article on HowStuffWorks explains everything with diagrams.

Basically, all water guns have two important types of parts: the pump and the check valve. (The check valve is simply a one-way valve that allows water/air in, and nothing back out.) As the diagram shows, when the pump is pulled, water is sucked out of the reservoir through the check valve. When the pump is pushed, the water is pushed through a second check valve and into the pressure chamber. Pulling the trigger opens a regular valve which lets the pressure chamber release it's load.

Every portable water blaster ever built uses this concept. Some do not have triggers and pressure chambers, and so pumping shoots the water out directly (piston powered blasters) while others are only essentially a pressure chamber and an air pump. (pressurized reservoir) Most high end blasters however, use the full system I mentioned above, but the pressure chamber type is what varies. In air pressure, it's simply a sealed vessel, where air floats to the top and gets compressed, pushing the water down. In CPS, the water is pumped into a thick rubber balloon-like bladder which squeezes the water out. Newer blasters have a piston and spring to store pressure but that system is less accepted for other reasons. Even the SCII mentioned earlier is just a pressurized reservoir system on steroids. (and has a piston to seperate the air and water)

Once you have the basic principles of how it all works, it's quite simple. Have a look around and you'll find that everything works off those principles.

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JuchTurtles
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Re: Hey

Post by JuchTurtles » Tue Jan 19, 2010 1:02 pm

Nice write-up, C-A_99. That's basically everything about water guns.

Now here's the problem. Does Athrun_Zala live in an easy to get PVC area? If you live in Australia, New Zealand, even some parts of Europe don't. So you may have to make it out of copper (heavy!).

I think you should go for the APH if you're still building. It has a great guide, and you'll understand water guns better in general.
The name's Juch, just Juch.
Also known as Commander JuchJawsTurtles, commander of the C0BALT TiDE team in The Ocean Volcano Union.
SPLASH! You're dead!

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