My Idea

General water gun discussion.
TheArbiter97
Posts: 26
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 7:40 am

My Idea

Post by TheArbiter97 » Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:44 am

Hey guys if you all read my hi post you know i'm planning to make "weapon"


how much can 250 and 300 psi push water? 50 feet?

ok so here's an image of the basic schematic:
http://s923.photobucket.com/albums/ad74 ... nt=SSC.jpg

here is a 4ft metal pipe i found at the back of my house which i will use for a barrel
http://s923.photobucket.com/albums/ad74 ... 130736.jpg

here is a black tape i will use for my electronics
http://s923.photobucket.com/albums/ad74 ... 130535.jpg

here is the kokoahut container ill use for holding my water
http://s923.photobucket.com/albums/ad74 ... 130424.jpg

the cap witch will be glued to object A
http://i923.photobucket.com/albums/ad74 ... 130415.jpg

this is object A
Image

updates will come soon in a meantime here are a few questions

how long do you think the barrel should be?remember i only have 4feet

how much can 250 and 300 psi push water? 50 feet?

attached are some downloadable pics
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Last edited by TheArbiter97 on Wed Dec 09, 2009 9:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

TheArbiter97
Posts: 26
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 7:40 am

Re: My Idea

Post by TheArbiter97 » Wed Dec 09, 2009 7:06 am

a taught came into my head do you guys think i should was off the red area making it look squary and small?

cause one of my aims is to have object a or something liek that about 2-3feet
Attachments
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JuchTurtles
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Re: My Idea

Post by JuchTurtles » Thu Dec 10, 2009 12:59 pm

Hmmm... This looks interesting. I don't think you want a 4 foot long barrel, longer barrels actually reduce range.

Btw, 250-300 psi! That would shoot very far, and hurt to be shot wih at close range.
Ben's Supercannon II shot about 70 feet at 100 psi. Depending on design, you may get 150 or so or more! You don't need that much pressure; it hurts!
Last edited by JuchTurtles on Sat Dec 12, 2009 3:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The name's Juch, just Juch.
Also known as Commander JuchJawsTurtles, commander of the C0BALT TiDE team in The Ocean Volcano Union.
SPLASH! You're dead!

TheArbiter97
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Re: My Idea

Post by TheArbiter97 » Thu Dec 10, 2009 1:10 pm

JuchTurtles wrote:Hmmm... This looks interesting. I don't think you want a 4 foot long barrel, longer barrels actually reduce range.

Btw, 250-300 psi! That would shoot very far, and hurt to be shot wih at close range.
Ben's Supercannon II shot about 70 feet at 100 psi. Depending on design, you may get 150 or so or more! You don't need that much pressure; it hurts!

But still, cool project!
if you saw my earlier project you would know i am building a sniper rifle type and be a menace on a roof with nobody pwning me :)

i was inspired when i saw a waterfall and a military copter the copter reminded me i wanted to be a sniper in the military and the waterfull put it together

i will post more pics soon
cause know i am only collectiog

TheArbiter97
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Re: My Idea

Post by TheArbiter97 » Thu Dec 10, 2009 1:32 pm

okay attached here are some images of stuff i just bought okay i just talked with my farther and he said that the batteries i have are not powerfull for the air compressor so he told me a motorcycle battery would be powerfull so later i will show the diagram and give a better writeup

damn my internet is slow

well i hope you guys can help me with finding the sniper scope i would need

one more thing i am posting in general beacause this post is about materials and collectiong and discussion

the post about building and designing discussion will be in homeades

oh and also need help cause the aircompressor was so damn loud so any ideas to make it softer of silence it?

3 goals now
1.to build my 1st homeade and diy tool
2.to make my weapon be in the notable homades section :D
3.to have the experience of building something alone well not that alone but you get the point
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Drenchenator
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Re: My Idea

Post by Drenchenator » Thu Dec 10, 2009 3:11 pm

I like how enthusiastic you are, TheArbiter97, but I have to be blunt. This water gun will not work as currently planned.

You say you're going to use 250 to 300 psi. None of your materials will support those kind of pressures. By building the gun out of these parts, you are asking for a dangerous explosion. There is a reason most water guns are made out of PVC pipe or metal pipe: These materials support a lot of pressure. None of your materials do.

Also, your diagram makes no sense. Where's the water? You have an air compressor in there, but no water. If you are making an air powered water gun, it must have an up-right pressure chamber. You don't have one. Your current design will just shoot air out the barrel.

Water guns don't have barrels; they have nozzles. A good nozzle accelerates the stream right before it leaves the gun. A barrel is just wasted space. It may be called a water gun, but it behaves very differently than a firearm.

Please check out our homemades section of the website for some basic design tips. Your gun doesn't work as planned and will just be a danger.

Edit:

It appears that your air compressor is a small one designed for inflating tires. This will not work for a water gun. If you plan to shoot water out of it, it will break. If you plan to pressurize your water with it, it will do it slowly. In all, I do not think you have planned out your design. It appears brief and fragmented.

JuchTurtles wrote:Btw, 250-300 psi! That would shoot very far, and hurt to be shot wih at close range.
Ben's Supercannon II shot about 70 feet at 100 psi. Depending on design, you may get 150 or so or more! You don't need that much pressure; it hurts!
Straight pressure doesn't increase range like that. Range is very hard to increase. Even with a high power gasoline water pump (very high pressure indeed), the range is only about 90 feet. Flow rate increases with pressure, but there's much more to range than pressure. The stream must be well laminated or it will break up before it shoots too far.
Last edited by Drenchenator on Thu Dec 10, 2009 6:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The Drenchenator, also known as Lt. Col. Drench.

TheArbiter97
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Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 7:40 am

Re: My Idea

Post by TheArbiter97 » Fri Dec 11, 2009 12:16 am

Drenchenator wrote:I like how enthusiastic you are, TheArbiter97, but I have to be blunt. This water gun will not work as currently planned.

You say you're going to use 250 to 300 psi. None of your materials will support those kind of pressures. By building the gun out of these parts, you are asking for a dangerous explosion. There is a reason most water guns are made out of PVC pipe or metal pipe: These materials support a lot of pressure. None of your materials do.

Also, your diagram makes no sense. Where's the water? You have an air compressor in there, but no water. If you are making an air powered water gun, it must have an up-right pressure chamber. You don't have one. Your current design will just shoot air out the barrel.

Water guns don't have barrels; they have nozzles. A good nozzle accelerates the stream right before it leaves the gun. A barrel is just wasted space. It may be called a water gun, but it behaves very differently than a firearm.

Please check out our homemades section of the website for some basic design tips. Your gun doesn't work as planned and will just be a danger.

Edit:

It appears that your air compressor is a small one designed for inflating tires. This will not work for a water gun. If you plan to shoot water out of it, it will break. If you plan to pressurize your water with it, it will do it slowly. In all, I do not think you have planned out your design. It appears brief and fragmented.




Straight pressure doesn't increase range like that. Range is very hard to increase. Even with a high power gasoline water pump (very high pressure indeed), the range is only about 90 feet. Flow rate increases with pressure, but there's much more to range than pressure. The stream must be well laminated or it will break up before it shoots too far.
mind helping me with altering the design with drawing or metal?
edit:blunt is good i really like people who help me and let me knoe what is wrong here's a cookie for you XD
Last edited by TheArbiter97 on Fri Dec 11, 2009 12:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Drenchenator
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Re: My Idea

Post by Drenchenator » Fri Dec 11, 2009 5:01 am

mind helping me with altering the design with drawing or metal?
Unfortunately, your design has nothing to go on. I suggest you go back to the drawing board and come up with a completely new design.
The Drenchenator, also known as Lt. Col. Drench.

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SSCBen
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Re: My Idea

Post by SSCBen » Sat Dec 12, 2009 1:08 am

TheArbiter97, I too would suggest learning more about how water guns and then making a new design. You should find this page and the links off it to be helpful: http://www.sscentral.org/physics/works.html

Your expectations are also unrealistic. Pressures higher than 70 psi or so are nearly worthless in water gun designs because you get diminishing returns by increasing pressure. In other words, doubling the pressure might only increase the water flow by 10%. An increase in flow might result in reduced range as well, so higher pressures could actually reduce range.

You're probably also unaware that most pumps take a while to build up to higher pressures. Portable air compressors, especially tire inflaters like what you have, are particularly bad in this respect.

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cantab
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Re: My Idea

Post by cantab » Sat Dec 12, 2009 2:20 pm

I'm not sure I understand the design.

250 psi is overkill. 100 is more than enough. The Mythbusters launched a cannonball around a mile using 68 psi.

What's more important is using large diameter tubing without tight bends, a decent sized pressure chamber, and the right nozzle, to promote a reasonably high flow rate and a thick stream that suffers less relative drag.
I work on Windows. My toolbox is Linux.
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JuchTurtles
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Re: My Idea

Post by JuchTurtles » Sat Dec 12, 2009 4:01 pm

I've got a question for TheArbiter.

Here it is.
Where is the pressure chamber in the design? I don't see one.
I looked at the diagram again. Where is the water even held? To me, this is like a WBL or something that's just shooting air. I don't see anywhere for it.

Btw, what the heck is object A? Is that like some kind-of mailbox or something?

What is the bottle you show in a picture for? Is that the pressure chamber? Where does it go on the design?

Why am I asking all of this? I don't understand.

Awaiting a response.
The name's Juch, just Juch.
Also known as Commander JuchJawsTurtles, commander of the C0BALT TiDE team in The Ocean Volcano Union.
SPLASH! You're dead!

TheArbiter97
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Re: My Idea

Post by TheArbiter97 » Sun Dec 13, 2009 8:16 am

thanks for help all

Ben:thanks for the link

Juch:umm its an air compressor i dont think it needs a pressure chamber

and object A is a fish tank filter

i guess ill get back to the drawing board


also i saw a bicycle pump that pumps 100psi is that enough?

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Drenchenator
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Re: My Idea

Post by Drenchenator » Sun Dec 13, 2009 2:50 pm

Juch:umm its an air compressor i dont think it needs a pressure chamber
Perhaps none of us have been specific. What you need is not just an air pressure chamber, but a water pressure chamber. You need something that pressurizes the water, and usually what does that is pressurized air (though other stuff can do it too).

In an air pressure water gun, the water gets pressurized because the air is compressed and exerts a pressure on the water. Your diagram just looks like it shoots air out the water. You can use an air compressor to supply the compressed/pressurized air, but you can use it to pressurize the water; it will break; it's only designed to pressurize air, not water.

100 psi should be enough. But the question is not how you pressurize the air but how you pressurize the water. To do that with the air pressure, you have to build a pressure chamber. It's the only way.

Best of luck with the re-design.
The Drenchenator, also known as Lt. Col. Drench.

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cantab
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Re: My Idea

Post by cantab » Sun Dec 13, 2009 2:51 pm

You may find you can simply connect the air compressor to a water tank and have it force the water out. Air floats, so you need the water outlet at the BOTTOM of the tank.
But you're likely to encounter flow issues. Psi is not the only issue. If your compressor can only move 2 ounces of air per second, then you can only shoot 2 ounces of water per second on average.

Bike pumps are good for designs that use a pump to compress air. For designs where the pump moves water, you need to build your own pump.

What I think you should do is make a pressurised reservoir design. You need a single large pressure-rated chamber - if you want to use the very high pressures it needs to be metal, but for pressures up to 100psi you can use pressure rated PVC plumbing parts.
From that chamber you need a removable cap for filling, a water outlet at the bottom leading to the valve and nozzle, and an air inlet anywhere (if sounds of bubbles bothers you, put it at the top) leading to your compressor.
You might also want a pressure gauge, unless there's one on the compressor.
I work on Windows. My toolbox is Linux.
Arsenal:
Super Soaker: XP215, 2xXP220, Liquidator, Aquashock Secret Strike M(odded), Arctic Blast M, CPS1200, CPS2100, SC Power Pak, 3l aquapack, 1.5l aquapack
Water Warriors: Jet, Sting Ray M, Shark, Argon M, Tiger Shark, PulseMaster
Others: Waterbolt, The Blaster, Storm 500, Shield Blaster 2000, generic PR gun, generic backpack piston pumper (broken), 3l garden sprayer M, 10l water carrier:

TheArbiter97
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Re: My Idea

Post by TheArbiter97 » Mon Dec 14, 2009 12:11 am

so what? you guys think i should still use the compressor for the pressure chamber?

p.s.-the bike pump is damn long i think ill get a small one around 50-70 psi

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