PVC woes

Build a homemade water gun or water balloon launcher and tell us about it.
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djohnson293
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PVC woes

Post by djohnson293 » Tue Jul 01, 2008 5:48 pm

I've been trying to get all the parts together for an APH. My friend and I went to Home Depot and found about half the things we needed. We got some parts that weren't right because neither of us were familiar enough with the design. I have studied it some more and feel that I know all the parts I need. The one problem I have is that a lot of the parts we needed weren't available at any hardware store or at a plumbing supply store. I wanted to build an APH because the APH guide said everything was available in one trip to the hardware store. Now I'm planning to order everything from McMaster Carr or Plumbing Supply. Besides an online retailer I have no idea about where to go for water gun parts. I was told when I went to the plumbing supply store that a lot of the things I needed were completely unheard of in residential plumbing. Have any of you run into this problem and if so, how did you solve it?

aEx155
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Re: PVC woes

Post by aEx155 » Tue Jul 01, 2008 5:59 pm

Well, what parts do you need that you don't have? By knowing that, you can figure out whether or not you have to order from McMaster Carr or just go to a different store.

All of the things in the APH guide are normal, as in, they aren't specialty parts that were ordered or made so that the APH could be built. Those parts were what should be in a Home Depot or Lowes, and it seems like the APH design was built around available parts. If you can't find regular parts in a regular store, then there's something wrong.

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Silence
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Re: PVC woes

Post by Silence » Tue Jul 01, 2008 6:05 pm

I'm sorry to hear you've had trouble here. I've had the same experience to some extent.

First, the staff at hardware stores don't always know what's in stock. Also, I've heard Lowes may be better for valves and suchlike. In fact, the official parts list mentions Lowes for nearly everything, but that's probably because Lowes is closer to where Ben lives and is thus a more natural choice.

You shouldn't have much trouble with getting PVC fittings - but correct me if I'm wrong. Buying large diameter, Schedule 40 pipe (anything but thinwall and cellular core) might take some searching too - I had to find a scrap of 3" pipe somewhere.

I can see some of the hose barbs and vinyl hose as being a little hard to find. Lowes carries it in the plumbing/hose section.

Check valves and ball valves should be in the PVC aisle. Once again, I'm not sure how comparable the Home Depot is and whether or not they stock a large selection of PVC (relative to plumbing faucets, sinks, etc.).

Here's a brief list of stores that should carry what you need:
  • Lowes
  • Home Depot
  • ACE Hardware
  • Noland's
All right...I know I didn't really solve your problem since you've already looked to no avail. But: do you know exactly which parts were unavailable? I see from your avatar and user title that you're a spudgunner, so I presume getting regular PVC was no problem.

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Drenchenator
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Re: PVC woes

Post by Drenchenator » Tue Jul 01, 2008 7:01 pm

Many of the parts can be replaced for others. The design is not strict in any sense. But we'll need to know what's missing. To illustrate, there is no way to replace a check valve for nothing since it's a requirement; a fitting, though, can be replaced with any number of parts as long as it all fits together in the end.
The Drenchenator, also known as Lt. Col. Drench.

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djohnson293
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Re: PVC woes

Post by djohnson293 » Tue Jul 01, 2008 7:39 pm

Well, the biggest problem was the 1/2" check valves. Home Depot, True Value and the plumbing supply store didn't have any pvc check valves that small. Our next problem was going from the 3" pressure chambers to the 3/4" tees. Nobody had the 2" to 3/4" bushings and even more surprising, we couldn't even find the 3" to 2" couplings. Next on the list of problems is the 3/4" female pipe to 1/2" male threaded. I also discovered a disparity in the APH design. Why go from 1/2" pipe to 1/2" female threaded and then to 1/2" male threaded to 3/8" barb? I found 1/2" slip barbs on McMaster Carr. I think I'm going to return most of the things I bought and get all of the things online. I know that Ben wants to make the APH guide as good as it can be so I have a couple of suggestions. First, I think the design should be simplified to the least amount of parts possible. Second, I think that McMaster Carr part numbers should be included on the parts list. So far I think the guide is very good and now that I have spent enough time looking at it to know which parts go where I feel confident in being able to build it once I have the parts.

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Goldfish4209
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Re: PVC woes

Post by Goldfish4209 » Tue Jul 01, 2008 7:41 pm

I got most of my materials at Menards, although since eight other people were building APHs too, we had to go to Lowe's because there weren't enough of some of the parts. I did find, however, that Lowe's had better ball valves (they were easier to turn).

aEx155
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Re: PVC woes

Post by aEx155 » Tue Jul 01, 2008 7:43 pm

djohnson293 wrote:First, I think the design should be simplified to the least amount of parts possible. Second, I think that McMaster Carr part numbers should be included on the parts list. So far I think the guide is very good and now that I have spent enough time looking at it to know which parts go where I feel confident in being able to build it once I have the parts.
Ordering from McMaster Carr would just make things more complicated. The reason for having those extra parts is so that people don't have to order anything, that it is the simplest to buy and make.

Most kids can't convince their parents to let them order anything, but they can convince them to take them to places like Home Depot and Lowes. It's the ability to only have to go to one or two stores to get all the parts that makes the APH the way it is; otherwise, it's just be another gun that probably only long-time hobbyists would go for.

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Silence
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Re: PVC woes

Post by Silence » Wed Jul 02, 2008 2:07 am

Okay, I admit - that's a curious list of availability issues. I think you'll have few problems going through McMaster-Carr - they have good prices, ultimate selectivity, and shipping is fast along the mid/upper East Coast. I'd still try to buy pipe and some fittings locally to save on shipping costs, but it probably isn't that big a deal.
djohnson wrote:Next on the list of problems is the 3/4" female pipe to 1/2" male threaded.
As far as I know, the plans use a 3/4" female plug (same OD as actual pipe, so it fits into 3/4" fittings like a tee or a coupling) to 1/2" socket fitting. You'll need a separate 1/2" male adapter.
djohnson wrote:Why go from 1/2" pipe to 1/2" female threaded and then to 1/2" male threaded to 3/8" barb? I found 1/2" slip barbs on McMaster Carr.
That's good to know. I haven't seen socket-ported hose barbs anywhere, but if they're made, McMaster-Carr has them. The male adapter and threaded hose barb combination is in stock in most stores, though.

Usually it's possible to substitute different combinations of parts to account for these problems, but I probably wouldn't be able to work around the lack of 3"/4" reducers, either. Sorry about the problems! Fortunately there is McMaster-Carr. We should see about adding some words in the APH guide about substituting other parts or ordering online in cases like this. Thanks. :cool:

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SSCBen
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Re: PVC woes

Post by SSCBen » Wed Jul 02, 2008 2:49 am

Sorry to hear that you're having trouble finding parts. McMaster-Carr should have everything you need. Just don't order pipe from them unless you want to pay a trillion dollars. Other than McMaster-Carr I have ordered from Ewing Irrigation for some hard to find 4 inch pressure rated fittings that McMaster-Carr did not stock.

I think there's some confusion about the purpose of the APH design. Part substitutions can and should be made. If you have a part that works better, use it. aEx is correct. The guide is based on the best parts that are available to me locally, not the best parts for the job, and not what's on the internet or necessarily available to you. Generally I think my guide follows what's readily available locally in the United States or Canada. It's meant to be a beginners water gun and I specifically wrote the guide to not use parts from the internet because many beginners will not want to order or may not be able to order.

From the emails I've received and forum posts I've seen, successful builds significantly outnumber those having trouble finding parts in the United States, Canada, and Mexico. That indicates (to me, at least) that what's available at my local stores is similar to most local stores.
Well, the biggest problem was the 1/2" check valves. Home Depot, True Value and the plumbing supply store didn't have any pvc check valves that small.
You can use any size check valve that is available. The only real limits are price and size. You might find larger check valves to be too expensive or too large.
Our next problem was going from the 3" pressure chambers to the 3/4" tees. Nobody had the 2" to 3/4" bushings and even more surprising, we couldn't even find the 3" to 2" couplings.
Not everywhere has those parts, but Home Depot should. You also could substitute a 3 inch coupler, a 3 inch to 2 inch bushing, and a 2 inch to 3/4 inch bushing. In fact, that's probably a better idea because it's often easier to find those fittings PW-rated locally. McMaster-Carr should have you covered, so no worries.
Next on the list of problems is the 3/4" female pipe to 1/2" male threaded.
Whatever you can find to step up from 1/2 inch to 3/4 inch pipe is acceptable. There also are small reducing bushings that go from 3/4 inch male to 1/2 female but they're not always available. McMaster-Carr should have you covered again.
I also discovered a disparity in the APH design. Why go from 1/2" pipe to 1/2" female threaded and then to 1/2" male threaded to 3/8" barb? I found 1/2" slip barbs on McMaster Carr.
As I said earlier, it's what's available locally. There's no other reason for why those two parts were chosen.
First, I think the design should be simplified to the least amount of parts possible. Second, I think that McMaster Carr part numbers should be included on the parts list. So far I think the guide is very good and now that I have spent enough time looking at it to know which parts go where I feel confident in being able to build it once I have the parts.
Thanks for the tips. Concerning your first tip, as I said, I can't really remove parts without adding parts that can't be found locally for most people. Your second tip is a good idea I think was in the original outline but never made it to the final online page. Thanks for the reminder.

I'm glad you've figured out the design too. That's the main thing you need to know. Once you know how a basic water gun works and what sorts of parts are available any where, you can build many many types of water guns with ease.

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