Buzz-Bee Valve issues?

Repairs to water guns. Please put repair topics in this forum so that people do not have to sort through so many topics when looking for a repair. If a fix is included in the topic, please add (Fixed) before the topic title to indicate so.
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totokan
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Buzz-Bee Valve issues?

Post by totokan » Sun May 31, 2009 2:26 am

So, summer is fast approaching, and I have to prepare for the impending water wars. A year or two ago, as some may recall, I had issues with a sticky trigger on a Water Warriors Lightning, which I repaired using silicone lubricant down the barrel. An Orca I had purchased in 2008 was stored away in what I thought was a good place, and after testing it, I found that the trigger on this (relatively) new tagger was having the same issue. So I decided to ask if anyone else has experienced similar issues on this (or any) water gun? Thank you for your assistance in this investigation!
Edit: included names for the guns I had forgotten the first time around.
Edit 2: Rewrote for clarity
Last edited by totokan on Sun May 31, 2009 2:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Silence
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Re: Buzz-Bee Valve issues?

Post by Silence » Sun May 31, 2009 3:31 am

I think somebody's mentioned it before.

All modern soakers – both Super Soakers and Water Warriors – seem to have trigger issues of some sort. Super Soaker now uses Max-D valves in most of their water guns, and these valves tend not to close properly after a while. i.e. the grass is greener on the other side.

It sounds like you already know how to repair this. If it's only an issue of lubricating finicky valves, I wouldn't worry. It's an easy fix and it should last indefinitely. On the other hand, a busted Max-D valve is much harder to fix.

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cantab
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Re: Buzz-Bee Valve issues?

Post by cantab » Sun May 31, 2009 12:22 pm

I've never had problems with Water Warriors, but have had MANY Super Soakers malfunction.

To be honest I think Hasbro know most Super Soakers are unreliable, and don't really care, it's planned obsolescence for them, means they'll keep selling more.
I work on Windows. My toolbox is Linux.
Arsenal:
Super Soaker: XP215, 2xXP220, Liquidator, Aquashock Secret Strike M(odded), Arctic Blast M, CPS1200, CPS2100, SC Power Pak, 3l aquapack, 1.5l aquapack
Water Warriors: Jet, Sting Ray M, Shark, Argon M, Tiger Shark, PulseMaster
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totokan
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Re: Buzz-Bee Valve issues?

Post by totokan » Sun May 31, 2009 2:40 pm

I think the real problem with Hasbro is that they've realized they sell the same amount of units on their new, underpowered water gun line (which are cheaper to produce) as the old, extremely well-received CPS line. As a company, it's more cost-effective to produce the weaker, cheaper ones and save money and the possibility of a legal suit from some overzealous shooter.
EDIT: After going deeper into reviving my 'guns, my Flash Flood also suffers the sticky valve issue on the upper "flash flood" portion. It may just be an inherent issue with ball valves and debris.

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C-A_99
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Re: Buzz-Bee Valve issues?

Post by C-A_99 » Sun May 31, 2009 4:36 pm

Most problems with Max-D valves and the simpler spring and valve system used in WW's have the same problem; the spring wears out and eventually becomes too weak to close the valve. As for lubrication, I tried it on a PVC valve and it actually caused the valve to move slower, but from what I've seen on soaker valves, it may help out. (seems to be because of the different materials used)

The spring is really the only problem here. With a good spring, just about any blaster that uses ball valves can last years like the older blasters, given there are no other significant design flaws, like weak trigger pieces. (such as the infamous CPS 4100 of 2004, or the CPS 2100 mk II) Its not a matter of cost at all, its all design choices they make.

As for sales, I don't believe they make as much as they did in the CPS age. That was when blasters were actually popular (amongst all ages, not just little kids), but now the novelty has long worn off, and the decline in blaster quality only made it worse.

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Silence
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Re: Buzz-Bee Valve issues?

Post by Silence » Sun May 31, 2009 5:25 pm

Cantab's probably right. High profit margins on these weak guns, combined with the fact that they make more sales to replace broken guns, seems to work. Shifty tactics, but most people don't know that their water guns are going to break down. Even those who've read iSoaker's reviews (among others) don't get the full picture, since reviewers don't wait until the water guns break down. Perhaps "reliability" should be a statistic in these reviews, in the style of Consumer Reports.

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isoaker_com
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Re: Buzz-Bee Valve issues?

Post by isoaker_com » Tue Jun 02, 2009 12:05 pm

Springs and valves getting sticky after awhile requiring more force to open and close are all too common in current water blasters. I've chatting with those I know at Buzz Bee Toys about the problem and they are trying to do as best they can to minimize it. Of course, it does boil down to end costs and profit margins, but I feel BBT is doing what it can. I've also informed those I know at Hasbro, but with Hasbro being such a bigger company, things tend to change more slowly. It would be great to add in some sort of "reliability" or "durability" rating to reviews, but I sadly barely get enough time to test and use my blasters, let alone put them through more rigorous testing. For now, reliability testing must simply be done by the end-user (or, of course, any willing webmaster open to do longer-term testing on their water blasters and post about it).

:cool:
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C-A_99
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Re: Buzz-Bee Valve issues?

Post by C-A_99 » Tue Jun 02, 2009 3:18 pm

iSoaker, perhaps you could include a user based reliability number in the reviews as well as user based information on various marks and the problems they tend to have, though all of that stuff would probably have to be put on the bottom of the review along with other user submitted reviews. (reducing its chance of being read by the average person browsing)

Also, I should mention, my Oozinator has been working for 2 years. The air pump is getting a bit less sealy when no water is loaded, but there is nothing wrong with the trigger, not even any leaks. I'll be looking around for any more exceptions, but I heard that they fixed the issue with the AB and possibly the FF.

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Silence
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Re: Buzz-Bee Valve issues?

Post by Silence » Tue Jun 02, 2009 8:28 pm

@iSoaker: Yeah, I suppose it would be hard to keep track of the reliability for every water gun you own. For someone like me, who owns only a few soakers, it's not such a big issue.

@C-A 99: Good point. I believe Consumer Reports uses surveys for all its reliability data. You'd still need a lot of infrastructure to organize it, though.

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SSCBen
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Re: Buzz-Bee Valve issues?

Post by SSCBen » Wed Jun 03, 2009 12:55 pm

I've made a new thread to potentially identify water guns with reliability problems: http://forums.sscentral.org/t5621/

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