Would a "Limited Edition CPS" work financially?

General water gun discussion.
Locked
User avatar
Spinner
Posts: 1337
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2004 12:00 pm

Post by Spinner » Sun Apr 03, 2005 5:42 pm

I've been thinking about this idea for quite some time now. What I have been asking myself is, if Hasbro made a Limited Edition "CPS 4000", would there be enough demand for it if it cost, for example, $75USD?

Let's say, for instance, that this "CPS 4000" is a double-barrelled backpack soaker, a Monster XL/CPS 3000 hybrid with much more power - say 15-20x maximum on each nozzle, giving a maximum output of 30-40x.

Would it be realistic for Hasbro to make such a gun in a limited quantity, say two thousand? Obviously, since we don't work for any of these big corporations, and are rather in the dark as to costs, it's rather difficult for us to answer that question.

I suppose the most we can each say is, would we personally pay in advance for our own copy of the blaster? That way, as I see it, Hasbro would be risking less (bearing in mind the high price tag and up-front payment) than if they were making a regular, mainstream model for the general public.

I know I would pay at least $75, maybe more, if I had a picture of the prototype along with early specifications. Perhaps it's something for Hasbro to consider...or maybe it's completely unrealistic for them to consider. I just don't have enough experience in that field to decide.
ISS: Soaker Sagas

Submit your saga and see it up with other titans of water warfare.

Wild Boys
Posts: 245
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 1:00 pm

Post by Wild Boys » Sun Apr 03, 2005 6:45 pm

That's a good idea. I think a lot of people would want it though since it is like a return of a powerful, high outputted CPS. I would certainly want one. I think it would give Hasbro a boost since people will desperately want it since it is a limited edition and a return for a powerful CPS soaker in a while.

User avatar
wetmonkey442
Posts: 320
Joined: Sun Jun 22, 2003 12:00 pm

Post by wetmonkey442 » Sun Apr 03, 2005 7:05 pm

I'm sorry Spinner, as much as I would like to see this happen, it is against Hasbro's best interests. Why would they specifically make a water gun just for a few people, even when it repersents no financial loss to them. They have no reason to do it other than to make us happy and quite frankly that isn't one of thier main goals. Making a limited amount of a heavy duty soaker to cater to the wants of a small group of individuals isn't what a big corporation like Hasbro wants to do or is probably going to do.
Join the fight! Support water warfare in your area today!

User avatar
Spinner
Posts: 1337
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2004 12:00 pm

Post by Spinner » Sun Apr 03, 2005 7:48 pm

Originally posted by wetmonkey442@Apr 3 2005, 07:05 PM
I'm sorry Spinner, as much as I would like to see this happen, it is against Hasbro's best interests. Why would they specifically make a water gun just for a few people, even when it repersents no financial loss to them. They have no reason to do it other than to make us happy and quite frankly that isn't one of thier main goals. Making a limited amount of a heavy duty soaker to cater to the wants of a small group of individuals isn't what a big corporation like Hasbro wants to do or is probably going to do.
[snapback]23490[/snapback]

I'm perfectly aware that "making us happy" is not on their list of priorities. But I never said that it would merely present them no financial loss. I was indicating that it could be lucrative (or not, I don't know) for them if they put a high price tag on it. 2000 soakers at $75 each totals $150000: would they be able to make production costs low enough to give them a good return, is the question?
ISS: Soaker Sagas

Submit your saga and see it up with other titans of water warfare.

emperor_james
Posts: 62
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 5:59 am

Post by emperor_james » Sun Apr 03, 2005 11:42 pm

I don't pretend to know exactly how profitable such a soaker would be, however, using your estimate, it really doesn't seem like it would work. For a company of Hasbro's size, $150,000 is pocket change. The to design such a soaker would probably be several thousand alone. The machinery and molds and such would probably alone outweigh the profits. 2000 just is not enough sales to make a profit on such a relatively cheap product. On the other hand, what might work would be for Hasbro to rerelease, say, a CPS 3200, as they already have the design, and possibly some of the molds. However, your idea would work, it would just have to be widely available, which seems unlikely at the moment.

User avatar
Jadefalcon09
Posts: 409
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2003 12:00 pm

Post by Jadefalcon09 » Mon Apr 04, 2005 2:01 am

Sorry Spinner but I have to agree with WetMonkey. Hasbro's Super Soaker brand is a secondary one comparing to their other toys like Transformers, which are huge sellers, and also kid's games (board games) sell big. Huge companies that have a sucessful line of products usually release "limited edition" products when the line is really popular for the time, and usually those collector's editions will be a high price, 75 dollars is too much for a watergun, and Toy Stores around here will think that, too.

Is it possible for Hasbro? Sure! Is it in their best interest? no. Like you said, Hasbro can't please everyone, but it does need to tend to what the large majority of the consumer wants for a good price. Its Economics and Common Sense. This is the downside of being a minority. We can't always get what we want, yet we can influence what comes out from these companies as to what kids want. You see Collector's Edition Transformers because it's a huge franchise, Heck a Special Edition SS 50 was released for us. I hope you understand, it's just not in the best interests of the company.

User avatar
Spinner
Posts: 1337
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2004 12:00 pm

Post by Spinner » Mon Apr 04, 2005 8:55 am

Originally posted by Jadefalcon09@Apr 4 2005, 02:01 AM
Sorry Spinner but I have to agree with WetMonkey. Hasbro's Super Soaker brand is a secondary one comparing to their other toys like Transformers, which are huge sellers, and also kid's games (board games) sell big. Huge companies that have a sucessful line of products usually release "limited edition" products when the line is really popular for the time, and usually those collector's editions will be a high price, 75 dollars is too much for a watergun, and Toy Stores around here will think that, too.

Is it possible for Hasbro? Sure! Is it in their best interest? no. Like you said, Hasbro can't please everyone, but it does need to tend to what the large majority of the consumer wants for a good price. Its Economics and Common Sense. This is the downside of being a minority. We can't always get what we want, yet we can influence what comes out from these companies as to what kids want. You see Collector's Edition Transformers because it's a huge franchise, Heck a Special Edition SS 50 was released for us. I hope you understand, it's just not in the best interests of the company.
[snapback]23502[/snapback]

I am somewhat inclined to agree with you on the matter of the cost, but I still don't think you quite grasp what I'm saying. The gun would just not appear in stores, thus bypassing all the demands of stores such as "$20 price tag" and "shorter guns" which are currently strongly influencing design, from what we've heard.

Whether $75 is too much for a water gun depends on the person. I've just paid over that much for one, including shipping.

Taking emperor_james's comments - the point is that Hasbro already has the factories set up, using cheap labour in the Far East (as far as I know, I may be wrong). Why not 2000 special edition CPS 2000s? Come on, loads of people would pay $75 - probably more! Especially if Hasbro announced it one year in advance, to give people time to order.

As I said earlier, we cannot make a judgement either way regarding Hasbro's costs, only guesses. What I said was, would you buy a Limited Edition gun that cost a lot. It seems some will, some wouldn't.
ISS: Soaker Sagas

Submit your saga and see it up with other titans of water warfare.

emperor_james
Posts: 62
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 5:59 am

Post by emperor_james » Mon Apr 04, 2005 9:40 pm

My point was that Hasbro would not be likely to go out of their way to make such a product in a limited edition. If you gear up the factories for the production of something as cheap as a super soaker, you can't make just 2000 of them. With the CPS 2000, it might be more plausible, as they already have the design and all that, although it might still have to be more than 2000. There are a lot of costs in marketing a product, and even if there weren't, Hasbro would be going out of its way to please a small community.

As for buying it (was that your real question? If so I apologize) I probably would buy the CPS 4000 you described for $75, although I would have to think about the CPS 2000 for that much.

User avatar
isoaker_com
Posts: 458
Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2004 12:00 pm

Post by isoaker_com » Tue Apr 05, 2005 12:55 am

Interesting proposition... however,
The gun would just not appear in stores, thus bypassing all the demands of stores such as "$20 price tag" and "shorter guns" which are currently strongly influencing design, from what we've heard.
this won't work. Hasbro cannot directly sell its products to consumers without royally upsetting all their resellers. It'd be bad business practice for them to be directly selling a specialized product for any of their brands.

I wouldn't discount the possibility of larger soakers appearing one day, but it really depends on many more factors than more are willing to admit to. Profit margins are one area of influence, but definitely not the only one which has led to a reduced number of larger soakers in the more recent years. Then again, don't forget that water guns hadn't really developed much in the decades prior to the release of the Super Soaker. Most of today's 'weak' soakers could easily outsoak the top-of-the-line electronic water guns of the early 1980s. I'm not saying we should be complacent, especially since we've seen the power that the high-end stock soakers can do. However, things aren't so bad these days, either, especially with soakers like the Flash Flood and Blazer out there.

B)
:: Leave NO one dry! :: iSoaker.com / iSoaker.net ::

User avatar
NiborDude
Posts: 683
Joined: Sun May 23, 2004 12:00 pm

Post by NiborDude » Tue Apr 05, 2005 1:48 am

I think there could be a huge profit if there is enough publicity. If you constantly hear and see ads for a big bad butt gun that outperforms the competition, it would be a big profit and gain lots of interest. If such a soaker came out I would think about buying it.
Image

<span style='color:EEF2F7'>Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes! -Leonardo Da Vinci

User avatar
isoaker_com
Posts: 458
Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2004 12:00 pm

Post by isoaker_com » Tue Apr 05, 2005 11:30 am

Originally posted by nibordude@Apr 4 2005, 08:48 PM
I think there could be a huge profit if there is enough publicity. If you constantly hear and see ads for a big bad butt gun that outperforms the competition, it would be a big profit and gain lots of interest. If such a soaker came out I would think about buying it.
[snapback]23531[/snapback]

Actually, you just did a good job (albeit unintentionally) of summarizing the problem. Advertising it would cost money. Manufacturing wouldn't be cheap, especially if you want them to create a good quality, high powered soaker. ...and, after all that, many would still only say 'I would think about buying it' as opposed to actually buying it.

Of course, Spinner proposed some sort of down-payment system which means soakers would only be made for those who purchased and not for those who didn't. However, there's still the advertising as well as the distribution problems facing such an endeavor.

Conceptually, it may appear to work. However, reality tends to mangle concepts into much different outcomes.
:: Leave NO one dry! :: iSoaker.com / iSoaker.net ::

User avatar
Hunt_and_Annoy
Posts: 404
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 1:00 pm

Post by Hunt_and_Annoy » Tue Apr 05, 2005 1:43 pm

not to mention they wouldn't make exactly $150000 or whatever, they still have to include markup and the cost of manufacturing. Lets just hope they will release some good guns next year do to competition for BBT.

User avatar
Spinner
Posts: 1337
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2004 12:00 pm

Post by Spinner » Wed Apr 06, 2005 10:08 am

Originally posted by isoaker_com@Apr 5 2005, 12:55 AM
Interesting proposition... however,
The gun would just not appear in stores, thus bypassing all the demands of stores such as "$20 price tag" and "shorter guns" which are currently strongly influencing design, from what we've heard.


this won't work. Hasbro cannot directly sell its products to consumers without royally upsetting all their resellers. It'd be bad business practice for them to be directly selling a specialized product for any of their brands.
[snapback]23530[/snapback]

Regarding this point, I am not so convinced on this point. I understand your theory, but in practice, it appears that Hasbro do indeed sell products (including Super Soakers) directly to consumers, as can be seen at this link.

I can understand your points, though. It seems to me that, if it got into that position, the resellers would be complaining about nothing - Hasbro makes them guns that they can sell, and doesn't send them guns that they can't or don't want. What would they be complaining about?

Regarding the overall cost of such a venture, I fear you have reason, it would not be overall worthwhile for them.

EDIT: Wrote "does" instead of "doesn't"...oh dear :blink:
ISS: Soaker Sagas

Submit your saga and see it up with other titans of water warfare.

User avatar
isoaker_com
Posts: 458
Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2004 12:00 pm

Post by isoaker_com » Wed Apr 06, 2005 2:07 pm

^ It's interesting Hasbro does direct selling in the UK. I was unaware of that. They do not appear to sell directly in either Canada or the US so I'm actually a little surprised they do so in the UK. Ah well...

I'd love to be able to buy a special soaker from Hasbro, but I fear that that's just not likely going to happen the easily.
:: Leave NO one dry! :: iSoaker.com / iSoaker.net ::

User avatar
wetmonkey442
Posts: 320
Joined: Sun Jun 22, 2003 12:00 pm

Post by wetmonkey442 » Fri Apr 08, 2005 11:48 pm

Originally posted by Spinner@Apr 4 2005, 03:55 AM

Whether $75 is too much for a water gun depends on the person. I've just paid over that much for one, including shipping.


I'm sorry Spinner but not everyone in the water warfare community has jobs, a steady source on disposable income nor the time or abilities to earn it. Several people here and elsewhere in the water warfare community are not even old enough to legally work. If only the older portion of the water warfare community can afford to buy these "high powered" blasters, then it makes the entire idea even more less lucrative to Hasbro. Your estimate of $150,000 is, as Emperor James put it, pocket change.
Join the fight! Support water warfare in your area today!

Locked