Nerf Thread

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martianshark
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Nerf Thread

Post by martianshark » Sat Jul 03, 2010 1:53 am

I don't have an account on NIC, so I'd like to post something here.

Popular Mechanics.com is calling the N-Strike Vulcan EBF 25 "the biggest, best, most powerful nerf gun ever." That's total balony. It requires 6 D batteries which makes it very heavy and bulky, and not only that, it drains them quickly. It has the worst power ever only having maximum range of 30 ft, and accuracy is random. It jams all the time, and unjamming it is difficult. The moter, despite being powerd by 6 Ds, can't lift the chain if it isn't in the box. It's also rediculously expensive. I don't get why they're calling it this. Anyone that owns it instantly realizes they just wasted 40+ bucks. This makes me mad.

This makes me even more mad. I've read about ten reviews and they all say it's totally awesome, has great range, shoots over 3 darts per second, etc.

This makes me a little happier. http://scratch.mit.edu/forums/viewtopic.php?id=17822 scroll down to #8.

This thread can also be used as a nerf thread on SSC.
Last edited by martianshark on Sat Jul 03, 2010 2:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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C-A_99
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Re: Nerf Thread

Post by C-A_99 » Sat Jul 03, 2010 2:02 am

The Vulcan looks next to useless for most Nerf wars except the ones with stock blasters only. It's also very difficult to mod; modifications involving strengthened springs probably require a tougher motor and battery system.

But on the top of all that, the Vulcan's rate of fire is pretty pathetic for an automatic and for the range/accuracy it provides. I'd take a Magstrike with plenty of clips any day. (Gotta love how they call it the Magstrike when it uses clips, only Hasbro would do that.) Except the clip feed system has problems when part of it is fired off without firing off all 10 darts.

The Rapid Fire 20 doesn't have that problem, and it can shoot off 20 darts at a time but no speedloaders/moon clips of any sort have been improvised for them as far as I can tell.

In short: air pressure generally works better for Nerf automatics than battery powered spring systems. On the other hand, Airsoft electric guns use a similar system to the Vulcan: battery/motor with a gearbox that repeatedly drives a spring backwards and releases it on each shot. BB's are lighter and the system is cheaper than gas.

If you haven't had a look at air powered Nerf automatics, you may be surprised. The pump drives air into a CPS-like bladder that's much thinner than what's used in water guns. And you have a spring and plunger which is air driven and other systems move the barrels for each air burst to go to the right place.

Despite the simplicity of how most Nerf guns work, it's a bit surprising that to get a basic Nerf gun built (with a half-decent rate of fire) requires more design and planning than the basic water gun. Of course, you can build a Nerf gun like a WBL, but those are clunky and their incredibly low RoF makes them useless for most Nerf wars.

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martianshark
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Re: Nerf Thread

Post by martianshark » Sat Jul 03, 2010 2:19 am

I've heard of air powered nerf guns. I did build one like a WBL out of leftover PVC.

By the way BB seems to not only be beating Hasbro in water guns, but in Nerf. Their Tommy 20 is much better than the Vulcan, being lighter, just as good rapid fire, less batteries, and no jamming. It also interestingly looks simular to the CPS 1000.
Last edited by martianshark on Sat Jul 03, 2010 2:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Nerf Thread

Post by zeda.beta » Sat Jul 03, 2010 3:44 am

Eh, somebody did a mod to make the vulcan fire 500 RPM, and that is slightly more impressive. I can't find the page, but it did involve a motor replacement and someother things.
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C-A_99
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Re: Nerf Thread

Post by C-A_99 » Sat Jul 03, 2010 4:33 am

All BBT guns I've owned were pretty much garbage. I have the old Tommy 20 (yellow) which is semi auto with very poor range and jams very frequently. I also got the Rapid Fire Rifle, the lever action, magazine fed 6-dart shooting blaster. The spring catch is horridly designed and broke within months, and I never found a way to fix it since there are two fragile parts that are difficult to fix due to how they're placed.

In contrast, I've had my Rapid Fire 20 and two out of 6 Mavericks break but were repairable. Everything else works pretty solidly. It's pretty evident that Nerf generally makes much higher quality foam blasters than BBT.

For the Vulcan, you'll need some really good equipment. A better motor for starters and more battery cells would help. Spring upgrades are needed for more power, though along with that you might as well replace the plunger's O-ring for a better seal, re-barrel each link on the ammo belt, etc. Having a stronger spring may require reinforcement.

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zeda.beta
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Re: Nerf Thread

Post by zeda.beta » Sat Jul 03, 2010 4:35 pm

The only BBT guns I have owned were DS's, and they all broke, except one. I have never had a Nerf gun break, only the front handle on my Arrowstorm came off, and it is still useable.
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martianshark
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Re: Nerf Thread

Post by martianshark » Sat Jul 03, 2010 4:37 pm

I guess so, but I still think the Tommy 20 is better than the Vulcan - especially the newer one.

I'd like to learn more about Nerf. Could someone show me an FAQ simular to the one on SSC?

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Re: Nerf Thread

Post by cantab » Sat Jul 03, 2010 5:52 pm

With the exception of the Max-D mechanisms, my general feeling has been that Hasbro's Super Soakers have better build quality than BBT's Water Warriors. Perhaps for foam dart guns, the greater number of moving parts means the inferior build quality of Buzz Bee's products becomes more apparent.
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Arsenal:
Super Soaker: XP215, 2xXP220, Liquidator, Aquashock Secret Strike M(odded), Arctic Blast M, CPS1200, CPS2100, SC Power Pak, 3l aquapack, 1.5l aquapack
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Others: Waterbolt, The Blaster, Storm 500, Shield Blaster 2000, generic PR gun, generic backpack piston pumper (broken), 3l garden sprayer M, 10l water carrier:

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C-A_99
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Re: Nerf Thread

Post by C-A_99 » Sat Jul 03, 2010 6:04 pm

It isn't so much building quality for BBT as it is design. The RFR's spring catch system could've easily been designed to put much less stress on the catch. Their shell system doesn't work so nicely either but the way the design their magazines kind of requires it. (Plus the shells protect the darts from getting flattened or damaged otherwise and darts with suction cup tips work.)

Indeed Hasbro has access to better molds and plastic manufacturing techniques, but design is still the primary factor here. Bad design introduces weak points which are almost always what breaks and for Hasbro, that would be some of their Max-D springs that snap easily.

I think after Max-D springs stretch over time without being used too much, they may be less prone to snapping. Only time will tell as I'm judging this by when my second FF's main trigger breaks. Other Max-D problems only require lubricating the valve and BBT blasters tend to have the exact same problem as well.

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Re: Nerf Thread

Post by cantab » Sat Jul 03, 2010 6:32 pm

I think the failures I've suffered could probably have been remedied by lubrication actually. The springs never snapped, they just stopped closing the valve properly. But at the time, I didn't know lubrication would fix it and I don't think the online information mentioned it. (EDIT: This happened over a year ago now)
Of course now my Arctic Blast has had the mechanism removed (off the flood nozzle) and I've probably lost the bits. I guess I might be able to make my Secret Strike and Liquidator reliable again.
Last edited by cantab on Sat Jul 03, 2010 10:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I work on Windows. My toolbox is Linux.
Arsenal:
Super Soaker: XP215, 2xXP220, Liquidator, Aquashock Secret Strike M(odded), Arctic Blast M, CPS1200, CPS2100, SC Power Pak, 3l aquapack, 1.5l aquapack
Water Warriors: Jet, Sting Ray M, Shark, Argon M, Tiger Shark, PulseMaster
Others: Waterbolt, The Blaster, Storm 500, Shield Blaster 2000, generic PR gun, generic backpack piston pumper (broken), 3l garden sprayer M, 10l water carrier:

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C-A_99
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Re: Nerf Thread

Post by C-A_99 » Sat Jul 03, 2010 8:50 pm

I made quite a few posts regarding lubrication of ball valves ever since I found out how well it worked a few months ago after trying it on my FF. The FF spring was pretty worn it seemed, but after applying silicone grease, it not works flawlessly. For my other FF, the same silicone grease wouldn't work so well; I had to use a silicone spray instead.

I'm not sure what exactly causes that; when lubrications simply fail to work effectively. Maybe the silicone grease I'm using got contaminated (the material seems to "stick" to random dust particles, etc. in the air) or my second FF's valve was slightly different in terms of the chemicals/lubricants applied in manufacturing. It works fairly well when I wiped out the silicone grease and applied a spray.

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Re: Nerf Thread

Post by Carnivorous Fungi » Thu Jul 08, 2010 8:15 pm

C-A_99 wrote: The Rapid Fire 20 doesn't have that problem, and it can shoot off 20 darts at a time but no speedloaders/moon clips of any sort have been improvised for them as far as I can tell.
Yes, they have, actually. http://nerfhaven.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=9409

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Re: Nerf Thread

Post by C-A_99 » Thu Jul 08, 2010 8:54 pm

Replacable turrets, interesting. I'd still personally prefer a moon clip system though as they'd be much less of a pain to create but that system ought to work well too.

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