Homemade Problems

Build a homemade water gun or water balloon launcher and tell us about it.
blaze
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Post by blaze » Tue Jun 29, 2004 5:21 am

So I finished glueing my homemade, it is kind of like Doom's only a few things are different, and Lowes didn't have 3" PVC piping so I used 2". Anyways, I decided to test it while the glue on my backpack was drying. I pumped it up (with air) about 10 times and opened the valve and out came a bit of air. Immediately I knew something was wrong. It was only a bit of air. I started fiddling around with the electrical tape on the pump, and after countless attempts and failiures, I decided on one amount of tape (I'm still not sure if this is my problem). I stuck the end of the gun (with the barbed fitting) in a bucket of water and started pumping. When I opened the valve, all that came out was a little bit of air. After 50 pumps in water, there was just a little bit of air. What I did then, in frustration, was to add a lot of cement to everything that was behind the check valve that lead to the pressure chambers, to seal any leaks. Don't bother asking for pictures, I'm not giving any until I'm in a good mood. :( :( :(

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SSCBen
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Post by SSCBen » Tue Jun 29, 2004 11:34 am

The problem is that you made your homemade out of tubing instead of PVC. :huh:

I wish it was that simple, please use the correct terms, it's not tubing, if anything it's piping. That sounds actually a lot like my first homemade, I tested it with air too, I didn't tesdt on my second one though. The pump may not seal very well on air. Water is a different story, wait until you try it on water. Water molecules are larger than air ones, so just because it doesn't seal on air doesn't say much about water.

It's normal, unless it doesn't pump water in either it's fine.

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wetmonkey442
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Post by wetmonkey442 » Tue Jun 29, 2004 1:20 pm

Same thing happened with mine when I first tested it. It isn't and leaks in the seal ( you would hear air escaping). It is your pump. Your need to make it as airtight as possible. Also, you won't get any good results until you construct a back/resevoir for your gun. A bucket doesn't work well (believe me, I tried.)


Good Luck!
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blaze
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Post by blaze » Tue Jun 29, 2004 5:15 pm

Originally posted by DoomSoaker@Jun 29 2004, 03:34 AM
The problem is that you made your homemade out of tubing instead of PVC. :huh:

I wish it was that simple, please use the correct terms, it's not tubing, if anything it's piping. That sounds actually a lot like my first homemade, I tested it with air too, I didn't tesdt on my second one though. The pump may not seal very well on air. Water is a different story, wait until you try it on water. Water molecules are larger than air ones, so just because it doesn't seal on air doesn't say much about water.

It's normal, unless it doesn't pump water in either it's fine.
Oh sorry sorry I meant to say PVC piping, I accidentally wrote tubing. Sorry about the confusion it was piping. And Doom, like I said, I did try it on water. Also, today I decided to try out the pump to see if it was the problem, so I took the pump out of the shaft (I didn't glue the pump cap because I knew something would go wrong) and put water in the shaft, simulating that the check valve had let water in (since I couldn't get water in by just sticking the back of the gun in water) then I put the pump back in and pushed. I pumped several times, and opened the ball valve. No water came out. I took the pump out (which had squirted water when I pumped, too) and tipped over the gun and sure enough water came pouring out of my pump shaft. I even tried using strips of rubber instead of electrical tape, which was just as bad. When I put too much tape, I can't pump. When I put too little and I can barely pump, it's not enough. Plus, to make things worse, there was a screw on part that was a bit loose and when I tightened it the bottom of the gun stuck at a bit of an angle from the top, so now my gun is ugly and non-functioning. I hate this.

[at]WetMonkey: I made a backpack and I didn't try it because the glue was drying but I will today as soon as I get back home. The weight of the water in the backpack might help get the water through the first check valve because I couldn't even get that far with a bucket. Took too long to pump the water through the tubing attached to the PVC (4 feet) so I gave up.

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wetmonkey442
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Post by wetmonkey442 » Tue Jun 29, 2004 5:23 pm

Hm....the tubing I used the connects my gun to my backpack is easily over 6 feet and my works just fine. I used my CPS 1500's pump, though just in case the pump wasn't airtight.
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blaze
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Post by blaze » Tue Jun 29, 2004 5:37 pm

Ok I had a breakthrough just like...5 minutes ago. I did my little take the pump out and fill the shaft with water routine, and sure enough when I was pumping some water leaked out, but when I opened the ball valve, some water sprayed out! Now I just need to make the pump so that it can get water through the first check valve and not just air from outside, then attach the backpack and it should work. I'll post pics as soon as it works.

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Winston Churchill
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Post by Winston Churchill » Tue Jun 29, 2004 5:54 pm

I'm sorry bro. I kinda know how you feel although fixing mine is a matter of even more time and money which I Don't feel I like spending right now.

But as for you here are a few suggestions that might help a bit (maybe). For the pump, I'd put a rubber stopper on the inside end of the puming pipe so water doesn't go into it. That could be one of your problems. Potentially, water could just hide in the pumping pipe and make pumping considerally less effective. Which could explain why water is in your pump and not going anywhere.

If you think the problem is just with the O-rings then you can actually buy some rubber gromets that will fit the 1/2" size. Its will provide a much better seal than tape. And you'll probably not be able to pump anymore before the seal is broken. Thats what I'm going to do when I fix my O-rings and reduce my dual pump size.

Another problem might be with your check valves. The ones I bought are adjustable with a screw. If yours are like this, then it might be on a high setting and you'll want to turn the screw to allow for easier access.

Without pictures or more info that's about all that I can think of right now. If I think of anything else I'll tell you. Good luck Blaze! :D
<span style='font-family :O ptima'>"We make a living by what we get, we make a life by what we give."

"We shall not fail or falter; we shall not weaken or tire...Give us the tools and we will finish the job."
Sir Winston Churchill

blaze
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Post by blaze » Tue Jun 29, 2004 6:06 pm

Originally posted by Winston Churchill@Jun 29 2004, 09:54 AM
I'm sorry bro. I kinda know how you feel although fixing mine is a matter of even more time and money which I Don't feel I like spending right now.

But as for you here are a few suggestions that might help a bit (maybe). For the pump, I'd put a rubber stopper on the inside end of the puming pipe so water doesn't go into it. That could be one of your problems. Potentially, water could just hide in the pumping pipe and make pumping considerally less effective. Which could explain why water is in your pump and not going anywhere.

If you think the problem is just with the O-rings then you can actually buy some rubber gromets that will fit the 1/2" size. Its will provide a much better seal than tape. And you'll probably not be able to pump anymore before the seal is broken. Thats what I'm going to do when I fix my O-rings and reduce my dual pump size.

Another problem might be with your check valves. The ones I bought are adjustable with a screw. If yours are like this, then it might be on a high setting and you'll want to turn the screw to allow for easier access.

Without pictures or more info that's about all that I can think of right now. If I think of anything else I'll tell you. Good luck Blaze! :D
Sorry for not explaining, but I didn't use a pipe for my pump, that's just plain stupid. I used a solid 3/8" aluminum rod, just like Doom suggested.

There was a screw inside the check valve on the little thing that pushes in, is that it? Because if it is the only way I would be able to set it lower now would be to use my PVC cutter to...cut the pvc coming from the check valve and then to put it back together with a 1/2" coupler (I think I have one, though). The check valve leading to the PCs is a 3/4" (Doom said they're way more expensive than 1/2", but they were only a few cents more. The real price jump was from 3/4" to 1", about 4 bucks of a difference) and it doesn't have the screw on the pushy part inside it, but it is much looser.

O rings? Say what? I used electric tape...

Thanks for the help. B)

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Winston Churchill
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Post by Winston Churchill » Tue Jun 29, 2004 6:24 pm

I doubt that the check valve thing is a problem. But it is a possibilty.
O rings? Say what? I used electric tape...
Of course you did thats what I was talking about. Take the tape off and try the grommets and you'll have a better seal.
There was a screw inside the check valve on the little thing that pushes in, is that it? Because if it is the only way I would be able to set it lower now would be to use my PVC cutter to...cut the pvc coming from the check valve and then to put it back together with a 1/2" coupler (I think I have one, though). The check valve leading to the PCs is a 3/4" (Doom said they're way more expensive than 1/2", but they were only a few cents more. The real price jump was from 3/4" to 1", about 4 bucks of a difference) and it doesn't have the screw on the pushy part inside it, but it is much looser.
Yes that is it. But if you checked the valves before you put them on then don't worry about it they didn't change. They only way it could cause a problem is if your "tape rings" didn't seal well. But if you fixed the seal then the vavles wouldn't be a problem. I made sure that my check valves were threaded so I could take them off and return them when I found out my gun didn't work. :) As for the price difference I made mine out of 1" so I felt that. (which was even more incentive to get threaded so I could return them) :D
<span style='font-family :O ptima'>"We make a living by what we get, we make a life by what we give."

"We shall not fail or falter; we shall not weaken or tire...Give us the tools and we will finish the job."
Sir Winston Churchill

blaze
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Post by blaze » Tue Jun 29, 2004 7:38 pm

Ok so I went with Winston's advice and bought two o-rings that were 3/8" wide on the inside. They were the thickest of that sort, and luckily fit perfect in the pump shaft (I didn't bring anything with me to the store&#33 ;) . The only thing I used tape for was in front of and behind the two o-rings to make sure that they didn't slip and slide. I then did my little bucket technique, pumped until water was actually in the gun (the bucket was under the gun not over it so the water naturally was not in the gun) and then pumped a few times, and took the gun outside. I opened the ball valve, and the test was successful! It's not at full power like it will be when I can pump a lot and I have a backpack attached (which I will do as soon as I get home, I'm at my dad's work right now), but I know it works, and that's what counts.

Doom, the tape method was total XPBackfire-esque. The only time the pump was good was when it was so hard to pump that...well...I couldn't pump. You must put it in your instructions that o-rings work much better, because they are perfect, have no leaks, make it easier to pump, and are very quick to install. And make sure you say that you should put a bit of tape in front of and behind the rings so that they don't slip and slide. I'll post pics of what I mean ASAP.

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Winston Churchill
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Post by Winston Churchill » Tue Jun 29, 2004 7:42 pm

Hey, that's funny. blaze I looked at your profile and its hilarious. your interests are... and I quote "Being awesome, telling my cooler friends that super soakers suck..." you mean your ashamed of your interests and your lying to your friends? Thats not awesome. Which means your lying to us about being awesome as one of your interests. Shame on you :P Oh, and congradulations blaze on the gun. Way too go!

Also, yes o-rings work well. What was doom thinking? Shame on him too. A word of adivce for anyone else who is going to be using tape is..Don't. If you make anything larger than 1/2"(like me) you will be forced to use grommets and not o-rings. Just Don't use tape. If yours still leaks blaze then feel free too add more o-rings thats what I'd do.
<span style='font-family :O ptima'>"We make a living by what we get, we make a life by what we give."

"We shall not fail or falter; we shall not weaken or tire...Give us the tools and we will finish the job."
Sir Winston Churchill

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SSCBen
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Post by SSCBen » Tue Jun 29, 2004 8:03 pm

I'll post pics of what I mean ASAP
That's not neccesary, I get what you're saying. I tried some O rings myself and I guess I got the wrong size or something because it would barely fit inside the 1/2" PVC. I'll try whatever works best for you guys and add it, I got tape to work fine. :P

blaze
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Post by blaze » Tue Jun 29, 2004 8:08 pm

Haha ok I'll change that thing about telling my cool friends that soakers suck...

The o-ring does not leak AT ALL it is perfect and I think that for homemade soakers they are a gift from god. They could also work great if you're making a homemade SC gun (for the place to put the SC nozzle in). I used two of them for my gun because I wanted to make sure that they are perfect, but I don't think I needed too. For my next homemade I won't even consider tape, because the fact is that tape is total XPBackfire-esque and doesn't help for anything. Like I said the only time the pump didn't leak was when I had to use a hammer to pound it in the pipe (I'm dead serious I did). And then they're jerky and weird to pump no matter how much lube you put on it (though it was kinda fun to put Vaseline on the tape because I have the kind that smells like baby powder...yay). I have one word of advice to soaker makers everywhere: NEVER USE TAPE!

I posted an MsPaint pic of what my homemade pump shaft looks like. I love drawing in MsPaint...

EDIT--Sorry Doom I didn't see your post telling me not to post the pic...if you want I can remove it.
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blaze
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Post by blaze » Wed Jun 30, 2004 3:49 pm

Ok so I drilled a few nozzles and tested some range. But first, just to say it, I can pump 25-30 times before it gets really hard to pump. Now back to range. I got a 33 foot (to largest puddle) shot for less than a second without any custom nozzles, just the 3/4" piping. My 3/8" nozzle, which is about 10x sized, gave a bit of a broken up stream so I will see whats wrong with it, but when I used it it shot for a few seconds about 50 feet. My 5/32" nozzle, which is about 5x sized, gave a nice, clean looking shot with a maximum range of about 60 feet, for about 6 seconds. However, only the first three seconds had ranges above 40 feet (man the pressure declines fast on this thing&#33 ;) . I have posted a picture of my gun and its backpack. I didn't have any good straps when I was making backpack straps so I just used stock Super Soaker straps, which are pretty uncomfortable. The backpack is huge! When I wear it it goes from my shoulders to my butt, and is about as wide as I am. It's not really too uncomfortable, but it's not something I'd want to run in. It is, like the PCs, made of 2" PVC. The check valve at the top is for venting air without leakage. You can fill the backpack with two methods: 1. Stick the hose in the check valve and fill, or fill from any other pressurized water source. This is the fast-fill way. 2. Take out check valve, fill normally, and put check valve back. This is the normal way. Anyways, I really wish that the gun had a more constant stream but other than that, I think it's great. It's very powerful and I would reccomend that any soaker enthusiast makes one, since it is very easy. And if anyone uses my backpack design, make it shorter. The vertical pipes should be about 1 foot high to be comfortable (on mine it was 1 foot 6 inches).
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Neuro
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Post by Neuro » Wed Jun 30, 2004 3:55 pm

hmmm you used 2" pvc for the chambers..... I was going to say that might have something to do with fact that it gets so hard to pump but it seems you made up for the diameter reduction with length.... doom says that the metal on the pump is actually comfortable, but it might be easier to pump after 25-30 if you wrapped a bunch of duct tape around the end.
"I used to care, but now I take a pill for that."

You can pretty much ignore the times on that, I rarely ever have Xfire on when I play. I should, though.
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