Super Cannon 2 sniper?

Topics about water war tactics, water war planning, and past water war stories.
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captianfear
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Super Cannon 2 sniper?

Post by captianfear » Sun Oct 05, 2008 2:45 pm

I've watched a few of the videos of various supercannons firing and read about how they work. I think they could be utillized in large wars as sniper rifles with a crew of 2. I know it was suggested that these cannons were not a good idea to use in battle but if you only used the wepon as a sniper you could utilize the cannon as support when attacking a large group of opponents. All you do is sit back and fire and you could hit maybe atleast three of the enemys if you moved they stream sideways as you shot. Another application of the super cannon would be hiding and shooting. I Know people could follow your stream back to you but it would be more effective but with less range than a wbl. 70 feet is good and shooting a wbl from afar is very unaccurate. Also you would take out a majority of your opponents. the maximum crew would be a guard with a cps 1500 or better, a pumper with a bike pump that could have a strap attached to it so they can weild a wepon when not firing, a resivor technicain with a large water carring device in a back pack and is incharge of filling the gun and carring the ramrod and finally the operater who carries the cannon around and is responsible for the firing of the gun, the venting of air, opening of vaulves, unscrewing the nozzel and using the ramrod to push down the plunger.
A riot blast homemade might be a good idea for the pumper of guard to carry to thwart off a rush of enemys, i mean like a gun specially made as a shotgun like my CAD homemade http://forums.sscentral.org/t5373/.

Please tell me what you think,
Captian Fear

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SSCBen
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Re: Super Cannon 2 sniper?

Post by SSCBen » Sun Oct 05, 2008 3:12 pm

Perhaps you should build something in the style of SCII to understand how impractical it would be in it's current configuration for water wars.

Yes, you could shoot and run away, but the refill time would be impractical.

The shot itself is impractical too. You're shooting about 4 liters per second with a SCII. That makes your shot time 1 second or less. You can break that shot up into many parts of course, but you'd still waste a lot of water.

Adding a system to help refill, like an HPA tank or a larger air system would make it more practical but expensive to maintain. I did the math a while ago. The HPA tank I own (a 72 cubic inch 3000 PSI tank) would only get 15 to 20 shots out of something like SCII. I forget what pressure I based the calculations on but I know it wasn't 100 PSI.

Simply put, there are water guns that would be much more efficient at what you are proposing than a SCII. For example, I'm certain a well designed LPD air pressure system would be much more practical than something like SCII. The range won't be as high but it'll be 95% of the way there, at less than 25% of the water flow I might add. Recharging would be done by a single person with a standard pump. Much more practical.

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Drenchenator
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Re: Super Cannon 2 sniper?

Post by Drenchenator » Sun Oct 05, 2008 4:17 pm

Logistics aside, there can really be no sniping in water warfare. Super Cannon II gets about twice the range of the best stock water guns available, but it only shoots about 73 feet still. A crew using it would have to be able 70 feet from the target to hit it. 70 feet isn't much. A swift jog at about 15 ft/s covers that distance in under 5 seconds, but getting just within range (about 30 feet away) takes much less time.

The range of Super Cannon II, though much better than anything else, doesn't offer enough time to truly get a clean shot and get away. From about 200 ft away, another swift jog of 15 ft/s would take about 13 seconds--better, but not very good. In all, the best way to use Super Cannon II to "snipe" would be to use advantageous terrain. Shooting from atop a hill not only adds range but also stops opponents from getting close within a reasonable time-frame.
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C-A_99
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Re: Super Cannon 2 sniper?

Post by C-A_99 » Sun Oct 05, 2008 4:37 pm

The closest you can get to sniping in water warfare is with water balloon launchers (preferably pneumatic for accuracy), but don't count on that too much.

The LPD design, as well as k-modded and other powerful soakers, are best for the higher range attacks while maintaining a workable rate of fire. Still, even those are not that hard to dodge, in which stream velocity helps in a case like this.

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captianfear
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Re: Super Cannon 2 sniper?

Post by captianfear » Sun Oct 05, 2008 6:48 pm

Thanks for the responses. :) I realize how impractical it would be for sniping and attacking a base. maybe if you had an air compressor hooked up to a marine battery you might get beater results than the air tank and possibly a lighter load. Most water guns have vertical pc's but supercannon II's is horizontal with a piston seperating air and water. i know that air rises anyways but would you get any better results if you had a vertical pc with a piston inside of it? (basically a vertical supercannon.) would this be any more effiecent, proably not but just in case.

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Re: Super Cannon 2 sniper?

Post by SSCBen » Sun Oct 05, 2008 8:17 pm

An HPA tank weighs much less than an air compressor plus a battery so I don't see how that's more practical. Maybe you're thinking of large lower pressure tanks used for filling tires and working with air tools away from a compressor.

The point of the design was to make everything go in a straight line. There'd be no point in having a piston if the PC was made vertical too. It wouldn't be more efficient to have a vertical PC and I'd imagine holding the water gun in that case would be difficult.

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cantab
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Re: Super Cannon 2 sniper?

Post by cantab » Sun Oct 05, 2008 8:22 pm

What people usually refer to as 'sniping' in water warfare is really more like ambushing. The distances are such that you'll be seen unless you're concealed. So you hide, and when someone gets in range, you shoot them. Ideally when their back is turned, so they don't dodge.

Better range makes that tactic more effective.

Another option is sniping from a highpoint. Height boosts the range of any weapon, but a larger stream is needed to prevent it breaking up into essentially rain. If you're high enough you can't be directly counterattacked; second floor (UK numbering) or higher of a building should be adequate.
In that sense, SC II also becomes a 'counter-sniper' weapon, since it has the range and power to hit targets other weapons cannot.

Also, a Supercannon II, if it hits, should soak the target so badly that they'll be out under most rules.

Ben: SC II is "a well designed LPD air pressure system".

SC II is designed such that the path of the water is dead straight. If the PC was vertical, the bend needed for the nozzle would make it LESS efficient.
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Re: Super Cannon 2 sniper?

Post by SSCBen » Sun Oct 05, 2008 9:55 pm

Depending on how much water you put in SCII, you could call it a LPD system. However, it's far from practical which is what I meant by well designed. ;)

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cantab
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Re: Super Cannon 2 sniper?

Post by cantab » Mon Oct 06, 2008 9:56 am

I'm not sure how you could make it more practical, aside from shrinking it, which must reduce either the range or the shot time (or both).

I suppose an over-under design might make it more manageable.
I work on Windows. My toolbox is Linux.
Arsenal:
Super Soaker: XP215, 2xXP220, Liquidator, Aquashock Secret Strike M(odded), Arctic Blast M, CPS1200, CPS2100, SC Power Pak, 3l aquapack, 1.5l aquapack
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SSCBen
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Re: Super Cannon 2 sniper?

Post by SSCBen » Mon Oct 06, 2008 10:44 pm

Perhaps I should have been more clear. A practical LPD system in my mind is pressurized using a hand pump rather than an air compressor. The word pressurized is misleading too because a hand pump pressurizes the water, transfers the water, and moves the piston. An air compressor only pressurizes. The water transfer and moving of the piston happen before with something in the style of Supercannon II.

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cantab
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Re: Super Cannon 2 sniper?

Post by cantab » Tue Oct 07, 2008 8:13 am

Oh yes, I see what you mean. The reload procedure for SCII is somewhat convoluted.
I work on Windows. My toolbox is Linux.
Arsenal:
Super Soaker: XP215, 2xXP220, Liquidator, Aquashock Secret Strike M(odded), Arctic Blast M, CPS1200, CPS2100, SC Power Pak, 3l aquapack, 1.5l aquapack
Water Warriors: Jet, Sting Ray M, Shark, Argon M, Tiger Shark, PulseMaster
Others: Waterbolt, The Blaster, Storm 500, Shield Blaster 2000, generic PR gun, generic backpack piston pumper (broken), 3l garden sprayer M, 10l water carrier:

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Authundir
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Re: Super Cannon 2 sniper?

Post by Authundir » Fri Oct 31, 2008 9:01 am

In my mind they would be far more equivalent to artillery. If used in some form of artillery battery, with roughly four of them. (one firing while the others reload)
the size makes them impractical for sniping so I see this as the only viable option.
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Re: Super Cannon 2 sniper?

Post by StormGlorious » Sat Nov 01, 2008 9:37 am

Who says that a sniper rifle must be small. If the idea is to kill the enemy from range, then what is the point of a small gun. The only advantage to small weaponry is for added manovourability. And if the enemy can not hit you then what is the point of a small gun.
Personally, I don't think that sniping is possible in water warfare as even the super cannon's range is not great enough to truly call it sniping.

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Last edited by StormGlorious on Thu Nov 06, 2008 9:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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