"real" Trigger

Build a homemade water gun or water balloon launcher and tell us about it.
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paul101
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Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2009 3:24 pm

"real" Trigger

Post by paul101 » Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:45 pm

hey guys,
I've been watching this site for a while now and I recently decided to build my own Water gun.
I want to have a "real" Trigger like manufactured Water Guns have. A Garden Hose Pistol should should be a solution.
But my Problem is that this Trigger should be at the rear of the gun just like real Triggers.
but the Water stream should come out of the gun in the front, for sure.
So there must be a thin canal.
When i Just stopped pulling the Trigger the Water that is still in the canal will create a Vacuum because its Movement is still outwards.
This will slow it down and it will possibly flow out of my gun with no power
and this won't look very good and wasts Water.

I drew a small pic to make this more understandable(I'm sorry my english is so poor)

So my question is if this is right, and when its right, how important is it - how much will it slow my water down??

again, I'm sorry for my poor english

mfg

edit: this guy also made it with a thin canal but mine will propably be 2 times longer, or more
http://forums.sscentral.org/t632/
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Unbenanntdsf-1.jpg

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Silence
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Re: "real" Trigger

Post by Silence » Thu Mar 12, 2009 1:43 am

Welcome to Super Soaker Central, Paul!

From what I know, provided the nozzle opening itself is small enough, the water in the "barrel" will just sit there after you close the valve. The only problem is that if you tip the water gun down, some of it might drip out and get displaced by air.

Commercial Super Soakers put the valve at the front and use a wire to connect it to the trigger. Drenchenator built a water gun with a trigger that illustrates this method. That may be less hassle.

paul101
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Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2009 3:24 pm

Re: "real" Trigger

Post by paul101 » Thu Mar 12, 2009 4:29 pm

My Problem is that I have no tools to build a good-looking trigger.

But I just read about the stream coming out of a Garden hose Valve beeing turbulent.
Will my water stream seperate itsself into drops when ist turbulent?
Or what are the problems with a turbulent stream?
If I would use a barrel that is as thin or thinner than the Nozzle of the Garden Hose Valve and with no extra nozzle at its end, will it make the stream laminar?
Last edited by paul101 on Thu Mar 12, 2009 5:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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C-A_99
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Re: "real" Trigger

Post by C-A_99 » Thu Mar 12, 2009 6:48 pm

In short, using a regular garden hose nozzle will cut your range by at least 20%, thats the simplest way to put it without going into the details of linear flow. Linear flow isn't the only problem however, the overall flow is also fairly limited compared to the better options available.

The best methods are to build your own piston valve or to create a trigger on a ball valve. If you go with the second option, it will perform best, but it is also the most difficult to create.

For the piston valve, I'd have to draft up a design to really explain it. It will vary quite a bit depending on whether you're going for a CPH or APH and how you want the layout of the gun to go. Here's a sample someone posted a while ago, to show how it works and the idea behind it.

Image

This was adapted for a water balloon launcher layout but the same concept can work in a water gun. While the flow isn't really linear, it can still provide a high level of flow, which is at least as important, if not more, than the flow being linear. It also seems to be easier to assemble and use, as the ball valve trigger is more likely to run into problems. (and you're going to need one heck of a spring for that anyway)

paul101
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Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2009 3:24 pm

Re: "real" Trigger

Post by paul101 » Thu Mar 12, 2009 7:40 pm

This thing looks good
I can imagine somthing like this:

but I have no idea how to make this hole in the pvc pipe without any gap between the stick and the pvc pipe
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Unbensdgannt-1.jpg

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Silence
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Re: "real" Trigger

Post by Silence » Thu Mar 12, 2009 9:51 pm

A turbulent stream breaks up in air, which increases air drag and reduces velocity and range.

@C-A_99: Nice layout - I'm impressed by the use of the sealing disk on the far left, which prevents the piston from jumping around as the chambers pressurize and depressurize. Air pressure acting on it creates an opposite force to the one acting on the opposite piston.

@Paul: Yeah, it'll be hard to seal a hole like that. The convention is to add a piece of pipe there and use a sealing disk that slides through it.

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C-A_99
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Re: "real" Trigger

Post by C-A_99 » Fri Mar 13, 2009 12:21 am

Silence, I didn't create that. It was a concept for a WBL trigger that waterwolf drew/modeled last year.

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Silence
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Re: "real" Trigger

Post by Silence » Fri Mar 13, 2009 8:05 pm

I thought the CAD work looked familiar. It's still a nice design, so thanks for the link. :cool:

paul101
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Re: "real" Trigger

Post by paul101 » Sat Mar 14, 2009 12:59 pm

I have another Probleem now...
I live in Germany and I can't get LRT here.
I wanted to buy it at McMastr but they don't ship to Germany
Is it possible to use bike tubes instead?

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Silence
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Re: "real" Trigger

Post by Silence » Sat Mar 14, 2009 6:59 pm

Yes, but in order to reach high pressures, you'll have to layer them a lot, which becomes impossible after a certain point.

You might be able to find LRT in some stores, but McMaster-Carr has an unrivaled selection in small quantities. Have you considered international package forwarding?

paul101
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Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2009 3:24 pm

Re: "real" Trigger

Post by paul101 » Sat Mar 14, 2009 11:10 pm

thank you for this link, i didn't know about them.
But their shipping Prizes are so damn high...I can't pay that much.
Anyway, I discoverd the LPD System and decided to build a soaker with this System.
And I just got another Problem: What adapters to use to get a Schrader, Dunlop or Sclaverand Valve on my Pvc-Pipe. Or is this even possible?

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Silence
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Re: "real" Trigger

Post by Silence » Sun Mar 15, 2009 4:25 am

Our Schrader valves have a 1/8" or 1/4" male threaded port, so we screw them into any 1/8" or 1/4" female threaded fitting in the air chamber. (1/4 inches is 6.35 millimeters.)

I haven't hear of Dunlop or Sclaverand valves. You should be able to look at them and see what type of fitting you need...it's probably a female threaded port in some size. Small adapters like these are usually made out of steel or brass, so don't expect to find one in PVC.

How easy is it for you to find PVC? I didn't know it was popular outside the United States.

paul101
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Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2009 3:24 pm

Re: "real" Trigger

Post by paul101 » Sun Mar 15, 2009 10:55 am

Pvc is quite easy to find.
There is Pvc available in every Hardware store. But its not for cementing but for just plugging it in. (there are O-Rings in every fitting) Thats a useless System, because it can't hold any pressure.
But the "normal" solvent-weld-Pvc is available in many Swimming pool and garden online-shops.
The big problem is that there is no universal online-shop like mcmaster.

Dunlop and Sclaverand valves are bike-valves in Germany.Their Benefits is that they can hold more Pressure than the Schrader vlave(225psi Sclaverand, 90psi Dunlop and only 60psi Schrader)

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cantab
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Re: "real" Trigger

Post by cantab » Mon Mar 16, 2009 2:03 am

For CPS, if you can't get LRT, I've heard layered balloons work, though it takes a LOT of layers.

The PVC you find in shops may not be pressure rated - it's probably for drainage. If you build a gun with non-pressure-rated pipe you're risking it blowing up in your face.
I work on Windows. My toolbox is Linux.
Arsenal:
Super Soaker: XP215, 2xXP220, Liquidator, Aquashock Secret Strike M(odded), Arctic Blast M, CPS1200, CPS2100, SC Power Pak, 3l aquapack, 1.5l aquapack
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paul101
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Re: "real" Trigger

Post by paul101 » Mon Mar 16, 2009 2:38 pm

a few years ago(I was something like 13 or 12 years old) I build a Spudgun with this PVC. Luckily, it didn't explode. But we only shot it once because it hat such a damn high recoil thatb it nearly flew of my hands so we decided that this thing is too dangerous to "play" with it...

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