Can I get some help?

Build a homemade water gun or water balloon launcher and tell us about it.
XxXxX
Posts: 19
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2008 1:22 pm

Can I get some help?

Post by XxXxX » Tue Nov 18, 2008 1:31 pm

Okay, I was introduced to this site a few months ago. Due to looking this over so well, I decided I am going to build two water guns to test my experiment. I am a beginner so I know I'll get a lot of look here look there, but all I need is a few straight answers. I have messaged Ben already via Email and it led me to most of the homemade parts to build.
-If you make every single part from the homemades section, could they be connected?
(like the nozzle, check valves, etc)
-What are the size or name of largest possible resevoir or pressure chamber to made out of PVC? (I want to buy the right thing)
-A specific size of PVC piping that could connect all parts: nozzle, ball valve, pump, etc?

Thanks, I know I'll be annoying about this, but I'm running a tight schedule at the moment. If I get some helpful comments it will make this go easier for me. I plan to begin getting supplies on tomorrow, Wednesday.

Thanks,

XxXxX

User avatar
SSCBen
Posts: 6449
Joined: Sat Mar 22, 2003 1:00 pm

Re: Can I get some help?

Post by SSCBen » Tue Nov 18, 2008 2:04 pm

All parts of homemade water guns are made to be connected. If they weren't able to be connected, you wouldn't have a water gun. Maybe I'm misunderstanding your question.

There is no largest possible reservoir of pressure chamber because there is no limit to how big one can be made aside from practical limits that depend on the application. If you intend to make one from PVC pipe then PVC pipe is what you should look for. 3 inch and 4 inch pipe typically are the cheapest per volume.

As for a size of PVC pipe that connects those components, there is more than one correct answer. All of those components are made in a variety of sizes. If you want to buy only one size pipe you can buy that common size for all of the components. Generally I don't recommend that because larger check valves are expensive and the pump should be about 5/8 inches in diameter for most people (larger diameters can easily be too hard to pump and smaller ones don't pump enough water).

The APH construction page shows that I used several sizes of PVC pipe as appropriate for that part of the water gun.
Last edited by SSCBen on Tue Nov 18, 2008 7:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

aEx155
Posts: 325
Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2008 3:13 am

Re: Can I get some help?

Post by aEx155 » Tue Nov 18, 2008 2:54 pm

What Ben said is pretty comprehensive; those parts were designed to connect to other parts so that they could be used in an homemade water gun. The size of the parts is then defined by your capabilities and limitations (ex: I wasn't able to get 3" PVC so I used soda bottles and that was the largest PC I could make). I just want to add this bit: be careful when you're making homemade things; unless you know it's going to work, don't try and build it. I tried two iterations of homemade check valves, both of which didn't work. It's just a precaution, since I could've bought several check valves for the money I used to build them...

XxXxX
Posts: 19
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2008 1:22 pm

Re: Can I get some help?

Post by XxXxX » Tue Nov 18, 2008 10:48 pm

Sorta what I meant. Hmm, I don't really know how to say this, but I'll hold it off. I will begin constuction of nozzle, check valves, etc tomorrow based on instruction from the homemades part on this site. Thanks for trying to help even though I know plum didley about most of this now, but I hope I can manage my first one.

Thanks,
XxXxX

User avatar
cantab
Posts: 1492
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2007 1:35 pm

Re: Can I get some help?

Post by cantab » Wed Nov 19, 2008 12:28 am

I would suggest not worrying about the nozzle too much. Firstly, they're probably the simplest part to make (unless you find yourself having to work with copper). Secondly, the ideal nozzle depends on the rest of the gun.

I reckon the most important, and most difficult, part is probably the pump. You're trying to make a moving part seal under high pressures.
I work on Windows. My toolbox is Linux.
Arsenal:
Super Soaker: XP215, 2xXP220, Liquidator, Aquashock Secret Strike M(odded), Arctic Blast M, CPS1200, CPS2100, SC Power Pak, 3l aquapack, 1.5l aquapack
Water Warriors: Jet, Sting Ray M, Shark, Argon M, Tiger Shark, PulseMaster
Others: Waterbolt, The Blaster, Storm 500, Shield Blaster 2000, generic PR gun, generic backpack piston pumper (broken), 3l garden sprayer M, 10l water carrier:

XxXxX
Posts: 19
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2008 1:22 pm

Re: Can I get some help?

Post by XxXxX » Wed Nov 19, 2008 12:40 am

Whats with the pump anyways?

User avatar
cantab
Posts: 1492
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2007 1:35 pm

Re: Can I get some help?

Post by cantab » Wed Nov 19, 2008 12:47 am

What do you mean, what's with it?

Basically, the pump is just a chamber that expands and contracts, between two one-way (ie check) valves. You extend the pump rod, it pulls water it. You compress it, it pushes water out. The check valves mean that the in way is from the reservoir, while the out way is into the pressure chamber.

What you don't want, is when compressing the pump, for the water to go not into the pressure chamber, but instead leak out. So you need a good seal.
I work on Windows. My toolbox is Linux.
Arsenal:
Super Soaker: XP215, 2xXP220, Liquidator, Aquashock Secret Strike M(odded), Arctic Blast M, CPS1200, CPS2100, SC Power Pak, 3l aquapack, 1.5l aquapack
Water Warriors: Jet, Sting Ray M, Shark, Argon M, Tiger Shark, PulseMaster
Others: Waterbolt, The Blaster, Storm 500, Shield Blaster 2000, generic PR gun, generic backpack piston pumper (broken), 3l garden sprayer M, 10l water carrier:

XxXxX
Posts: 19
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2008 1:22 pm

Re: Can I get some help?

Post by XxXxX » Wed Nov 19, 2008 1:20 pm

Okay, how would you hook up valves to the pump then? And what's a good seal. The pump will probably be the hardest part for me, otherwise, most other stuff makes sense. Does anyone have a diagram of the pump and how it's supposed to be connected? That's my only drag. Thanks for helping everyone, it's making some thoughts already become easier on me.

XxXxX

aEx155
Posts: 325
Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2008 3:13 am

Re: Can I get some help?

Post by aEx155 » Wed Nov 19, 2008 2:39 pm

You can find a diagram of the pump in the homemade pump article. If you have done it correctly, then you should have a piece of wood, sealed by o-rings, sitting in a piece of PVC pipe.

If you are using the valves made from the homemade check valves article, then you should have two valves with 3/4" threaded male fittings on both end.

You would connect them the way they are connected in the APH article, like it says on this page, but you would have to adjust to fix the connection issues (since your hm check valves use a different connection).

Looking at the diagram, you would put the pump between the inlet and outlet of the two check valves. Assuming you have 1/2" pipe for this section (you should because of the pump), you would require the following parts:
  1. 2x 3/4" FNPT to 3/4" slip
  2. 2x 3/4" slip to 1/2" slip
  3. misc parts to connect the pump and c-valves
You would have part 1 screw onto the male threaded connections of the check valves. You would then insert part 2 into the 3/4" slip end of part 1. Then, you would use part 3 as you normally would, like in the APH diag.

An alternate parts list:
  1. 2x 3/4" FNPT to 3/4" slip
  2. 1x 3/4" slip to 1/2" slip
  3. Misc fitting to connect the pump and c-valves
Construction is basically the same to the last, #1 is the same, but you would use the 1/2" sliptio 3/4" slip to connect to the pump, and put it in a 3/4" tee, instead of in #1. You would then use 3/4" pipe to coonnect everything.

Hopefully that makes sense...

User avatar
SSCBen
Posts: 6449
Joined: Sat Mar 22, 2003 1:00 pm

Re: Can I get some help?

Post by SSCBen » Wed Nov 19, 2008 6:15 pm

XxXxX, all of your questions so far are rather basic and have been answered in some way on the website. I don't mean to sound rude but there's not much we can do to answer these questions more than they have already been answered. Please read the website, in particular the construction page of the APH guide (which, I'll add, I've mentioned to you twice already and aEx has mentioned it to you once).

Let me say again that I don't mean to sound rude, but I find having to explain things to people who haven't read the pages on the subject they are asking about annoying at best.

XxXxX
Posts: 19
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2008 1:22 pm

Re: Can I get some help?

Post by XxXxX » Wed Nov 19, 2008 10:10 pm

Yeah, be rude, I don't mind, I understand that I am asking simple questions. I am usually an indirect learner, I usually need to be confirmed on what I read. But back to subject, should I be making my pump otta that instead of what I copied and pasted off of that part in homemades? Too much information to get down, but once I've got it down, I should be up top for anything else. Again, thanks.

XxXxX

XxXxX
Posts: 19
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2008 1:22 pm

Re: Can I get some help?

Post by XxXxX » Wed Nov 19, 2008 10:14 pm

If I haven't made this clear yet by chance, I am using all parts from the homemades section. I will acquire a trigger valve and piping (PVC) once I've constructed the parts.
Such as the pump, check valves,and nozzle. I will find a large resevoir and pressure chamber tomorrow hopefully and maybe piping to link everything nicely.


XxXxX

XxXxX
Posts: 19
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2008 1:22 pm

Re: Can I get some help?

Post by XxXxX » Wed Nov 19, 2008 10:44 pm

It finally hit me upside the head. I think I know how the pump might work! Correct me if my insight is incorrect.
When the pump sucks the water, it goes through a check valve so it can't go back. Since it can't go anywhere else, it goes through the way to the pressure chamber, and passes through a check valve which assures the water is 100% in the pressure chamber.
Is this exactly what you thought I wasn't understanding? Yes, this should be my only conflict except for buying the right stuff and putting it together. Thanks for forcing my brain to find the answer! This should go a tad better than I originally thought.

XxXxX

User avatar
SSCBen
Posts: 6449
Joined: Sat Mar 22, 2003 1:00 pm

Re: Can I get some help?

Post by SSCBen » Wed Nov 19, 2008 11:02 pm

should I be making my pump otta that instead of what I copied and pasted off of that part in homemades?
Be more specific. By "that", what do you mean? Do you mean the pump rod and seal assembly described on this page?

Do you mean the pump construction method described in the APH guide?

Either method is fine. Do what you are comfortable with. I prefer the method I used in the APH guide because it involves less work.

Heck, make your own method up if you think either method isn't good. ;)
If I haven't made this clear yet by chance, I am using all parts from the homemades section.
Could you explain by what you mean by you're using parts from the homemade section? Any parts used in homemade water guns are mentioned in that section. If you meant homemade parts, essentially everything is homemade aside from valves, which can be homemade but generally aren't.

Judging by your second statement, you seem confused about how the water gun is built. The pressure chamber can't be found--it must be constructed from PVC pipe and fittings (again, if you are building something like the APH). The only "pre-constructed" pressure chambers that can be found are bladder tanks and bottles. Water reservoirs generally are made from PVC pipe too, though you can use any water container if it fits.

Let me say something that you might find helpful. All of the parts except for maybe vaseline can be bought from a hardware or home improvement store in one trip if the store is stocked well. Print out a copy of the parts list, a picture of the finished APH, and maybe a few of the pictures of the specific parts. Go to the store and find all the parts it uses. Don't worry if the exact same part isn't there. There really are no restrictions as to what parts can be used aside from practical restrictions (i.e. this part is too big/expensive/small). Getting parts that are close is perfect.
When the pump sucks the water, it goes through a check valve so it can't go back. Since it can't go anywhere else, it goes through the way to the pressure chamber, and passes through a check valve which assures the water is 100% in the pressure chamber.
Yes, that's correct. As you can see it's a rather simple cycle once you understand how it works.

XxXxX
Posts: 19
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2008 1:22 pm

Re: Can I get some help?

Post by XxXxX » Wed Nov 19, 2008 11:43 pm

Ben you nailed every thing right on. I am going either to Menards or HomeDepot tonight to buy parts. I have copied and pasted all materials needed to make parts. Yes, I did know the Pressure Chamber was to be made of PVC. But must you drill to get inside or out of a Pressure Chamber? And for the thing about the pumps, I just wanted to see if the physics I thought of was correct for the pumps purpose. The constuction and proper placement of parts might be a toughie, but I'll construct the homemade parts tonight and distinguish which size, etc of PVC piping that I'll need. I will be leaving in less than an hour, any other comments before I buy the exact materials from the check valve, pump, nozzle, etc homemades pages? Oh yeah, what is epoxy by chance?

XxXxX

Locked