hey there!

General water gun discussion.
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Kalogagatya
Posts: 15
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2007 8:50 pm

hey there!

Post by Kalogagatya » Sun Jun 10, 2007 9:39 pm

hey! i'm new here :)

i've played with these water guns from their very start (i owned 2 SS50 :D ), and now i have a special interest on this kinda tech since i'm finnishing a masters degree on mechanical engineering and i'm specializing on fluid mechanics :)
(i guess i could be considered to old for this, but then there's no such thing!)

i'm from portugal and here people don't have the same dedication to SS as you do in the US, and so there a lot of models we don't get to buy :| (well.. ebay does the trick)
we have a lot of old models here (flash floods and arcticshock, and specially XP90s are abundant...!)

anyway, i guess i can share some of my learning with you on fluid motion :) and how to get it better :)

anyway-> the arsenal:

2x XP40 i like these as hand guns

XP310 i modded the nozzle so i could include one shotgun opening, a stronger thin opening, and a really harmless one so i can play with my baby nephews without hurting them :)

CVF CPS1000 my main gun :)

a lot of FlashFloods (once we (me and the place where i work) had a big party and a sponsor offered us a lot of FF and i kept them ^^

arctic shock i like this one to stun my enemies and then soak them along with their expensive cellphones ahahaha :D

highly moddified XP90

i always thought this was the coolest SS not cause of the power, but cause the way it worked..
and then i did my "too-much-time-on-my-hands mod" :P

i used the gun with a mild detergent to clean it up, and then i used it with liquid silicone/vaseline to reduce as much as possible the loss of momentum in the water flow. this way the gun internals were all smooth, and the gun is more efficient.

i did a CVF on the pump

i moddified the nozzle increasing the water flow in about 25%. the thing about this gun's firing mechanism is that for it to be fast, you need to help the water coming out. so a bigger nozzle helps. i also injected with a needle some liquid vaseline into the mechanism itself, and polished the nozzle interior (this also increases the range)

and then i really got into it:
i moddified the water tank so i could fit a specialvalve connected to a portable air tank. i also made a special connection to a sort of grenade launcher, which actually is the upper part of a FF fitted to the under parts of my XP90.

this makes it more powerful, can shoot far, intimidating factor, and specially: no pumping. obviously i planned it so in like.. half a second i can unplug the special valve with no air loss ^^

i'm going to modify it more by adding a connection to a backpackwaterthingie :x
i'll add a few pics one of these days
more ideias? :D

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Silence
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Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2006 9:01 pm

Post by Silence » Sun Jun 10, 2007 10:21 pm

Welcome to the Super Soaker Central forums! Wow, I think you might be the first real fluid dynamics expert. :)

Just wondering, did the XP 90 experience improved performance after you lubricated it? Sounds like the lubrication might have helped.

Also, judging from the US patent, I think there may have been rubber O-rings for the seal. Vaseline, as an oil-based lubricant, may degrade the O-rings over time (probably longer than the water gun's lifetime, though). Just a tip in case the water gun ever starts leaking a bit while pulse firing. :cool:

Your Flash Flood and XP 90 integration also sounds cool. Do you have any pictures of the end result? It sounds inspiring!

One potential modification I have in mind is a conversion from pressurized reservoir (PR) to separate pressure chamber (separate PC). PR water guns have air pumped into the water reservoir, while separate pressure chamber water guns have water pumped into a pressure chamber, compressing the air.

The XP 90 is a PR water gun. However, you cannot easily add a backpack, as the backpack part and the hose would have to be pressurized (since air is pumped there), and you would need lots of pumping to pressurize the large backpack chamber.

What you can do is make the gun have a separate PC and reservoir. The reservoir, which is the part in the backpack, would hold lots of unpressurized water. Pumping forces that water into the bottle (which is now the pressure chamber) and compresses the air that was inside.

If you want to convert the water gun into a separate PC water gun with a backpack, you will need to insert the backpack hose in the right location. Currently, a check valve (in other words, a one-way valve) directs air from the atmosphere to the pump, and another check valve guides air from the pump to the reservoir. A separate PC water gun has a check valve directing water from the reservoir to the pump, and another check valve to direct water from the pump to the PC. In order to do this modification, you will need to find the opening that sucks in air that goes to the first check valve. Attach the backpack hose to the opening to send air, and not water, into the bottle.

I am sorry if this post has far too much information for now...I just thought I should put it out there for when you do the backpack modification. :cool:

At any rate, welcome to the forums, and good luck with all that you do! You've already offered much insight into new modifications and concepts. I'd love to see more! :)

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Kalogagatya
Posts: 15
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2007 8:50 pm

backpack mod

Post by Kalogagatya » Sun Jun 10, 2007 11:56 pm

yeah i've been thinking on how am i going to add the backpack mod.. might be a challenge. what i've been thinking though is to 'wire' things so i can use the flashflood 'charger' as the PC (it is rather powerful), so i can supercharge it with the air tank, and use the old air tank 'socket' in the water reservoir to plug in the backpack... that might work :)
with that PC chamber i can probably switch to a larger low friction 1 inch long steel tube (with an anti-rust coating) have to think about it

hmm.. vaseline does degrade orings, and probably i should use silicone for that effect (silicone, is this the way u guys spell it? :X ), but it has the best adhesion to plastic, and so keeps the surface really smooth.. the XP90 is really cheap (can get one for 10$) and so my plan B is to switch damaged parts :P

the lubricating alone gives more exit speed at the nozzle, thus increasing range.. haven't measured it yet, but i guess both air tank and lubrication would extend reach in about.. 9 to 12 feet.
anyway lubrication greatly increases rate of fire :)

thanks for all the advice ;)

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SSCBen
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Post by SSCBen » Mon Jun 11, 2007 7:35 pm

Welcome to Super Soaker Central, Kalogagatya! Hopefully you'll stay around because we need engineering advice from time to time. ;)

I'm busy but I do want to say a few things.

Vaseline does not necessarily degrade rubber. It degrades natural rubber, but synthetic rubbers typically are not affected. Most O-rings are synthetic rubbers. Always check chemical compatibility. I used vaseline to without any negative effect in my water gun Supercannon II because the rubber was Buna-N, a synthetic rubber compatible with petroleum jelly. If you have vaseline and the rubber you are using is compatible, there is no reason not to use it. ;)

I like the idea of the air power modification to the XP 90. Could you get some pictures and maybe write a guide? That sounds like a really useful modification. I think I might try it on a water gun of my own.
Last edited by SSCBen on Mon Jun 11, 2007 10:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Kalogagatya
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Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2007 8:50 pm

Post by Kalogagatya » Mon Jun 11, 2007 8:47 pm

yeah i really need to start taking pictures of things .. ! i think i'll try some silicon emulsion with a rusting decelerator to further improve performance... (i'm sorry if sometimes my spelling isn't correct.. :x )

oh by the way i think i've found a new way to neutralize the security valve (or check valve):

use a hacksaw and make a perpendicular section cut. it's really simple.
then slide a small coin to block that section, and cover the seams with araldit or cyanoacrilate. (araldit does miracles on these things)
and there you go :)
Last edited by Kalogagatya on Mon Jun 11, 2007 8:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: edit: 'silicon oil' would be confusing

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SSCBen
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Post by SSCBen » Mon Jun 11, 2007 11:00 pm

The spelling's fine. What matters is whether or not we can understand what you're saying... some people have blown a gasket with me and go off on a rant with me via email over spelling, but I really could care less as long as I understand what is being said.

Interesting idea for pressure relief valve disabling. Perhaps a new thread should be made listing all of the new methods people have thought up?

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