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Old 06-02-2008, 10:03 AM   #1
Drenchenator
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Default Too Heavy or Big?

Okay, this is something I have wondered about for a while: At what weight would a homemade be too heavy? How large is too large for a homemade? I'm talking about both backpack and hand-held guns. The weight held in a backpack is more or less based on what the user can tolerate and how large they are themselves.

My homemade weighted 5 lbs and was the size of a CPS 1000/1200/2100, 24 inches long. I always thought it was too heavy, but I could be wrong. I was just a very dense gun that had a lot of metal parts in it. It definitely was not too big.

Ben's new CAP gun raised the question again in my mind. I remember he asked me something to the effect of "Is 36 inches too long?" and my reply was "Sounds long, but I guess it depends."

Any thoughts?
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Old 06-02-2008, 04:08 PM   #2
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Default Re: Too Heavy or Big?

I presume your homemade was 5 pounds when empty.

I generally don't like water guns much larger than CPS soakers. The Monsters (except the CPS 4100 equivalent) and the Hydro Blitz are too big. But for heavier weaponry that you wouldn't use conventionally, I might find SuperCannon II, a water balloon launcher, or even SuperCAP to be usable. But since my wars are too laughably small to use dedicated heavy weaponry, that's out of the question so I don't know.
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Old 06-02-2008, 04:44 PM   #3
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Default Re: Too Heavy or Big?

It is 5 pounds empty. Forgot to be specific.

I also don't like my guns being much larger than CPS guns. I guess it just goes with the snug feel they have, which was one of the reasons I opted for the same size for my homemade. And from the recent "Top 4" topic, it seems people really like the size of the mid-size CPS guns. Just something to note, I guess.

I've never shot Supercannon II--that's Ben's honor, I guess--but I have held it and I must say I had no problem moving around with it. It's pretty long too, but the end of it goes under your arm instead of touching it like other guns.

SuperCAP was very heavy. My guess would be at least 20 or so pounds empty. The metal piping and steel tank did it. Just from that I doubted that it would be "battle practical" by any definition. I'm still waiting to see what Ben has in store for this new CAP gun; looks like it could be a good and useful combination of Supercannon II and SuperCAP.

Any other thoughts?
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Old 06-02-2008, 07:01 PM   #4
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Default Re: Too Heavy or Big?

Well, i'd say as long as your comfy carrying your gun, it doesnt matter the size or weight. I mean, we cant set a striaght stanard that applies to everybody, as maybe smaller people prefer carriable weaponry so something lighter. Larger people can carry more weight so they settle for something heavier. or maybe something just as light?

Its all down to personal interest of whether or not its suitable for you as an individual. I mean, some people are saying my 16 Litre Backpark is too much... hey, i can carry it, and it most definatly wont stay full for long anyway
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Old 06-02-2008, 11:08 PM   #5
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Default Re: Too Heavy or Big?

I would go with Aurum on this one.

If you like big and heavy, then go with big and heavy. If you're more for small and ligh, then go for small and light....

...but, yes; there is a limit. If it weighs more than you (or almost as much), takes more than one person to use (while firing), or can't be used without endangering yourself or others, then it's too big/heavy/cumbersome.

Then again, those are just relative; now to figure out actual measurements...

I for one would say this: anything that is taller than your head when in use (backpack type; Ex.Ben's SuperCAP) is too tall.
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Old 06-03-2008, 08:19 AM   #6
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Default Re: Too Heavy or Big?

Good points from both Aurum and aEx155. I definitely agree that it's very relative to the size and weight of the user. A user's not going to use a gun bigger and heavier than they are. But what percent of their weight and height would be good enough? The general rule they tell you for backpacking is that your pack shouldn't be over 1/3 your weight. Nevertheless, if you want to move around a lot, the lighter the better. If you wanna be a heavy gunner, you'll need more water, which means more weight as well.

What I'm looking for is a good rule of thumb for how much weight do you don't want, like the backpacking one I said before. Though in the end, it's likely to come down to what works for you individually, and there's nothing to stop that and nothing better than that.
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Old 06-04-2008, 08:04 AM   #7
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Default Re: Too Heavy or Big?

OK, you want a rule of thumb?

I'd say, figure out first of all what you want in your weapon of choice. Are you looking for range, maneuverablilty, firepower, resevoir capacity etc? Then, set priorities on these factors. Say, you want high capacity, but you want to be able to move fast? Depending on your priority, you would make the choice from these as a reflection of that and head towards one of the factors mainly.

Well thats my idea of how you should look at things anyway. Im all about efficient planning
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Old 06-04-2008, 08:29 AM   #8
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Default Re: Too Heavy or Big?

Okay, I understand. You're saying that if you want a gun with a lot of firepower, you may need some size, but if you want speed, maybe something smaller. Makes sense. But I'm sorta looking at the big picture: When would a gun be too big? I'm not really talking about what it's going to be used for; I'm talking about an upper limit on size. But then again, if you apply what you just said, there is an upper limit for size for each kind of gun based on the purpose you have for it. Makes me start to think.
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Old 06-04-2008, 08:52 AM   #9
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Default Re: Too Heavy or Big?

I kinda had an upper-limit stated in my post earlier:

Quote:
If it weighs more than you (or almost as much), takes more than one person to use (while firing), or can't be used without endangering yourself or others, then it's too big/heavy/cumbersome.

How's that?

If you want dimensions, I would say (for me, at least...):

For a backpack:

- Nothing should constrict your movement limb-wise. If you're wearing it, it should fit on your back/in you backpack; if it goes over in any dimension other than your head (taking into account height limits), then you should try to make it more compact.

For a hand held gun:
- You should be able to carry it comfortably. If it's cumbersome, then you might want to reconsider handle placement.
- If you can't carry it during the time between refills, then it's probably too heavy.

I would put more, but I got to go. I'll add some when I get back from school.
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Old 06-04-2008, 09:32 AM   #10
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Default Re: Too Heavy or Big?

Quote:
For a backpack:

- Nothing should constrict your movement limb-wise. If you're wearing it, it should fit on your back/in you backpack; if it goes over in any dimension other than your head (taking into account height limits), then you should try to make it more compact.

For a hand held gun:
- You should be able to carry it comfortably. If it's cumbersome, then you might want to reconsider handle placement.
- If you can't carry it during the time between refills, then it's probably too heavy.
That's great, exactly what I was looking for in fact. Just opinions on what would make the gun too big or heavy or I guess cumbersome. Maybe I should have concentrated on the qualities that make a gun too large, but I think you hit the nail right on the head. Avoiding discomfort and allowing as much movement as possible should be a main goal when building something.
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Old 06-04-2008, 05:44 PM   #11
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Default Re: Too Heavy or Big?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aEx155
If you want dimensions, I would say (for me, at least...):

For a backpack:
- Nothing should constrict your movement limb-wise. If you're wearing it, it should fit on your back/in you backpack; if it goes over in any dimension other than your head (taking into account height limits), then you should try to make it more compact.

For a hand-held gun:
- You should be able to carry it comfortably. If it's cumbersome, then you might want to reconsider handle placement.
- If you can't carry it during the time between refills, then it's probably too heavy.

I'd have to agree with aEx155 for his dimensions. Mind if i add something to this?

For a backpack:
-Make sure you can carry this when full for the required distance/speed, otherwise you should reconsider capacity, strap layout etc
-How easy is it to refill? Do you have to take it off, or can a friend fill it when your still wearing it, for speedy refills?

For a hand-held gun:
-Shouldn't be any longer than your Arm, or at least the grips of it shouldn't be more than an arm's length away.
-Should always be relativily easy to handle, weight-wise, especially when empty. If it's even too heavy then, consider making it lighter

They might seem similar on second thoughts, but i think this should be compiled some how, as a sort of Home- made Rule of Thumb document
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Old 06-04-2008, 06:48 PM   #12
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Default Re: Too Heavy or Big?

Good points, especially about refilling and grip location. I don't think many people have considered those in homemades up to this point: They sorta just put the stuff wherever! Those would serve as very good rules of thumb that I would recommend to anyone serious about building a water gun. It's gotta work well with people.

I was planning on using some of this in an article later. Ben kept telling me to make a very general "Design of water gun" article and these are just the kind of things that need to go in it.
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Old 06-05-2008, 05:57 PM   #13
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Default Re: Too Heavy or Big?

Well, if you do, feel free to use our tips. I dont mind, im sure aEx155 wouldnt mind either.

Just include us in the Thanks, bit, ok
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