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Old 05-18-2008, 02:21 PM   #1
Corwin
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Default Help with Designs

Hello it struck me the other day i wanted a water gun, but not a cheap store one that'll fall apart in a few days, so i figured i would make one myself. i looked online for a bit then proceeded to make 2 designs, i found this site and decided to post and see if they would work before i spent the money to make them (which i wont have for another 2~3 weeks when my paycheck comes in)

keep in mind i am not looking for these 50+ feet streams, am interested in ones that can be used by (or on) younger kids in a small pool for fun (my sister is only 8)

this first one



works on the simple water mortar basis, with an added reservoir, when you push the stopper it pushes water out the nozzle, when you pull the stopper back in pulls water from the reservoir. i am pretty sure this one would work without too much difficulties but it obviously would only have as much power as the wielder has strength (i think at least lol)

the second one


this one is more complicated, but i figured i could give a bit more power to the above one for the little ones to use as they might not be able to make a longer stream with the first one. i added a pump like device. the water chamber fills up from the reservoir (it says check valve but thats wrong, should be a turn valve). then the "stopper" is pump backward and forward, pulling air in and then compressing it respectively, a few times. when done pumping leaving it in forward position with some form of hook to hold it there. then the 'trigger' would be opened (a turn valve again) and the piston thingy (same thingy as in the masive supercannonII on this website) would be pushed forward by the compressed air, pushing the water out the nozzle. refill from reservoir, repump, and release again.

basically my questions are abotu if these will work, what improvements could i make to simplify/make work the design, stuff like that ^ ^ i dunno, oh and any advice yall have to give me .
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Old 05-18-2008, 02:41 PM   #2
Drenchenator
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Default Re: Help with Designs

Welcome to Super Soaker Central!

Your first design is very good and should work well just like that. I don't see anything that could go wrong in it.

Your second design won't work though, but I may be wrong because I don't completely understand the explanation of how it works. Pumping air in to the "chamber" area won't do anything to make it perform better. You said that it uses a piston like Supercannon II. The reason Supercannon II gets top-of-the-line performance is because the air and water are divided; the air is on one side of the piston and the water is on the opposite side.

In your second design, the water is not separated from the air. The air would then float to the top where the firing valve is. When you open the valve to shoot, the air will just leave first and nothing will push the water out.

It seems like the design was trying to use air pressure to give the gun a little boost. If you just want 50 foot plus range with that kind of system, build an air pressure homemade. It's not as complicated as the system you described and gets about 55 feet in range. Sounds good? Our guide is very detailed and should explain everything.
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Old 05-18-2008, 02:47 PM   #3
Corwin
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Default Re: Help with Designs

Hey Drenchenator

thanks for the answer, there is somethign to seperate the water and air int he second design, it would be the round circle thing in the picture, i realize now it looks connected to the 'pump'
something like this:

http://images.sscentral.org/supercannon/05.jpg

it would be in the back end of the water chamber, unable to go further back because of the diference in size int he tubes, it would have a tight seal not to allow the water and air to mix, then the nozzle would be released it, this round circle thing would be pushed forward by the air and push the water out in turn if that makes sense.

i just realized though, this would be a one time use, how would i get the round circle thing back into place after a shot?

as i said i am not looking for 50+ feet, but more like maybe 10-20 feet, this is for the kids to play with (and soak me with since they enjoy that so much) in the pool. the reason for this second design is the little kids couldn't push hard enough on the first one ot make it go too far, so with this design they could pump a bit and get something that goes a bit further do to the added pressure. instead of a child using the first one and having it go 10 feet, they could use the second and have it go 20, while i can use the first myself and make it go 20 with no problem. (i think that makes sense, but it is hard to explain)

i looked over that link you sent that design looks a lot more complicated, but if mine wont work i will probably go with the one you linked

PS- i know the second design isnt nearly as well modeled and labeled as the first, it was an epiphany this morn when i woke up and i quickly put it together lol so sorry about any troubles reading the design i will clarify where you need me to

Last edited by Corwin : 05-18-2008 at 02:54 PM.
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Old 05-18-2008, 03:22 PM   #4
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Default Re: Help with Designs

Welcome aboard!

Drenchenator, from what I gather, what looks like the pump is actually two parts - the pump and then the plunger.

Unfortunately, that design is like a jumbled APH. You'll need a check valve between the pump and the pressure chamber if you actually want air to collect there. Also, a check valve is insufficient for filling the chamber.

A) You may be thinking of pressurized reservoir (PR) water guns that have one tank that serves as a reservoir and a pressure chamber.

B) Or if you're going for the Supercannon II design, just do away with the top reservoir and check valve. In that design, you use a stick through the nozzle to push the plunger back, and also another valve to release the extra air before doing that.

I'm not sure if you can get trigger valve that work by twisting a handle in that direction, but you could use any valve, really. A ball valve is best.

If you haven't skimmed the APH guide and the how water guns work article, I would go do that first. Other than that, good designs and models, and have fun!

P.S. The first one is a neat reproduction of commercial pump guns. The only difference is that the pump handle is in the front - it's much easier to move the handle than the entire water gun, as you might have to do with this design.
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Old 05-18-2008, 04:02 PM   #5
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Default Re: Help with Designs

Quote:
Drenchenator, from what I gather, what looks like the pump is actually two parts - the pump and then the plunger.
Okay, I thought that was just one piece. It is pretty much a jumbled APH after that. SilentGuy summed up well what you should do from here.
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Old 05-18-2008, 04:32 PM   #6
Corwin
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Default Re: Help with Designs

ah i see what you guys mean, i plan to go ahead with option 2 you state silent. i will be back in a few weeks when i start building the first, then the second
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Old 05-18-2008, 05:19 PM   #7
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Default Re: Help with Designs

Homemade water guns are usually made for better ranges etc. than stock guns from the store. I really don't think that they're made for reliability. Most of the people here use commercial guns, and it seems that most of the don't "fall apart in a few days". If you take care of them, I believe commercial guns would suit your purposes perfectly.

Of course, if you want to make you r own, then there would be better choices for kids than the Supercannon II. According to what I've read, Ben had to have a partner to effectively use the gun, and it was also tedious because it wasn't as simple as putting water in and pumping. You would have to push the piston down, fill the chamber, attach the nozzle, fill the air reservoir then fire.

Although it looks more complicated, the APH is a lot like a regular water gun. It has a reservoir, a pump, a pressure chamber and a trigger, just like a commercial gun. One fill inlet and a nozzle, that's it. Unless you want mega-water output, the APH seems better for your purposes than the Supercannon.



Like this. Imagine a combination of Ben's Supercannon II and his 2L homemade. Connect it to a hose to fill it up, then connect it to a nozzle to fire. Uses a piston.
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Old 05-18-2008, 06:51 PM   #8
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Default Re: Help with Designs

Yeah, Supercannon II may be a little overkill. It gets 70 feet of range easily and 80 or 90 may be possible...that's compared to 35 feet for a contemporary Super Soaker and 50 to 60 for homemade water guns.

aEx is also right that the 2 liter homemade water gun may be a better fit. If you make a bunch, which is easy and cheap enough to do, they're pretty much refillable water balloons and get better range if you use a better design (a more suitable nozzle, and no hose connecting all the parts).

Actually, our homemade water guns page has links to a bunch of neat, off-site water guns. (Check out the homemade piston pumper and the water mortar.) And finally, note that the best way to improve range with pumpers as in your first design is to use a narrower pump. You could conceivably go down to 1/4" tubing, but beyond that things could become difficult to work with and the flow would bottom out.
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