more PC's?

Build a homemade water gun or water balloon launcher and tell us about it.
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lousje1984
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more PC's?

Post by lousje1984 » Wed May 21, 2008 2:12 am

Hi!

I am working on a modular Super Soaker and I am wondering if any of you has experience with creating multiple pressure chambers and attach them to each other to increase power. I am also thinking of a possible difference between in series and parallel connected PCs? I hope somebody can help me out with some experience and explanation. Thanks!

Marlous

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Drenchenator
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Re: more PC's?

Post by Drenchenator » Wed May 21, 2008 2:50 am

Welcome to Super Soaker Central!

Adding extra pressure chambers does not increase power; it only increases capacity. It's because extra pressure chambers don't in fact increase the pressure. There is absolutely no different because series and parallel chambers as well because both only add to the total capacity of the system. If you want add power, an easier way would be to simply increase the pressure.
The Drenchenator, also known as Lt. Col. Drench.

lousje1984
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Re: more PC's?

Post by lousje1984 » Wed May 21, 2008 3:01 am

Thank you! Fast reaction!

Actually I am thinking of making two barrels of which one is multi functional: attaching it to the blaster makes it an extra PC and using it as a barrel makes your firing with only the main PC but with two barrels.

I am still doubting on the difference between series and parallel: according to the formula of power=force*velocity....the velocity would increase in the parallel one because the water has less friction when flowing through the pressure chambers..isn't it?
Creating more pressure could easily be done by increasing the pump volume?

Another question is on the valves used in the Super Soakers. Is it true that the piston pressurized blasters have only one valve in their system and the air pressured and CPS pressured ones have two valves?

Marlous

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Drenchenator
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Re: more PC's?

Post by Drenchenator » Wed May 21, 2008 3:24 am

Actually I am thinking of making two barrels of which one is multi functional: attaching it to the blaster makes it an extra PC and using it as a barrel makes your firing with only the main PC but with two barrels.
To me that sounds like an added complication but you're welcome to try if you want to. Are you in fact going to have two nozzles with this? I'd not completely sure what you have in mind, but a drawing will definitely clear up anything.
I am still doubting on the difference between series and parallel: according to the formula of power=force*velocity....the velocity would increase in the parallel one because the water has less friction when flowing through the pressure chambers..isn't it?
I'm going to repeat: There is no difference between parallel and series chambers. When you pump water into the chambers, the air will compress at the same rate; no chamber is going to get more pressure than another. It doesn't matter how they are oriented--any difference in pressure would even out, so each one will end up with the same pressure. This is not like circuits.
Creating more pressure could easily be done by increasing the pump volume?
Well, yes and no. The more water you pump into an separate air chamber gun, the higher the pressure would be. Increasing the pump volume would do this in less pumps.
Another question is on the valves used in the Super Soakers. Is it true that the piston pressurized blasters have only one valve in their system and the air pressured and CPS pressured ones have two valves?
This depends on what kind of valves you are talking about. I'll explain.

Piston-based guns like rivers gun and stream machines don't need any valves technically. They operate on the principle that the water just gets pushed out. Some have check valves--valves that only let water flow in one direction--so that you have have a reservoir of a feed tube attached for easier filling. You would need two checks for this: one for the intake and out before the nozzle. Piston guns tend not to use firing valves to control the flow since the flow is controlled by pushing in the piston. Ben's Supercannon II is the exception since its piston gets pushed by air pressure.

Most water guns need a firing valve and two checks; and both check valves are positioned around the pump. One makes sure that water extracted by the pump doesn't go back to where it came from and the other makes sure that it stays in the pressure chambers until the firing valve is opened. That's what some people call the "Super Soaker mechanism."

I suggest that you read some of the articles in our Homemades or Physics sections if you want to know more. They should outline much of what I said and much more.
The Drenchenator, also known as Lt. Col. Drench.

aEx155
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Re: more PC's?

Post by aEx155 » Wed May 21, 2008 3:59 am

When he talks about series and parallel, I believe he's thinking about flow.

Code: Select all

            _______    _______  -+-
series: ===(_______)==(_______)==O=>
With parallel, flow would be from PC to pipe to nozzle, while series would be from PC to PC to nozzle. Parallel seems like the one that is used more.

I'm not sure whether or not that was what he meant, but that's how I interpreted it.

...and like Drenchanator said, more PCs are for volume, not pressure. If you want higher pressures, you can use SCH 80 or metal to achieve higher pressure ratings, but it seems that SCH 40 would be sufficient for most purposes.

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Drenchenator
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Re: more PC's?

Post by Drenchenator » Wed May 21, 2008 4:15 am

When he talks about series and parallel, I believe he's thinking about flow.
I interpreted series and parallel as the same as their circuit counterparts: series in when one is linked directly to another so that the flow is the same through--like how in circuits the current in the same in a series portion. I took parallel to mean that they are like how they are in the APH; each one is split off from a main pipe. I guess it's just interpretation.

lousje1984, could you please explain more about what you mean by series and parallel connections? It's possible that I'm confused.
The Drenchenator, also known as Lt. Col. Drench.

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Silence
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Re: more PC's?

Post by Silence » Thu May 22, 2008 12:47 am

There's little difference between series and parallel pressure chambers because, while flow may be increased in those areas, it is still constricted in the barrel, valve and nozzle. You can slightly increase the flow coefficient by using many pressure chambers feeding into the barrel (like in the APH), but the difference would be unnoticeable unless all the rest of your tubing were also larger.

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cantab
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Re: more PC's?

Post by cantab » Tue Jun 17, 2008 8:48 pm

lousje1984 wrote:Thank you! Fast reaction!

Actually I am thinking of making two barrels of which one is multi functional: attaching it to the blaster makes it an extra PC and using it as a barrel makes your firing with only the main PC but with two barrels.
schematic design suggestion

Code: Select all

reservoir > pump > PC X barrel 1 - nozzle 1
                    \---/ - barrel 2 + nozzle 2 
> are one way valves.
The X is the firing valve
+ is a normal valve
\---/ is a valve that lets you choose whether barrel 2 connects before or after the firing valve.

For one barrel operation with barrel 2 as another PC, + valve is closed, \---/ valve is set to connect barrel 2 to before the firing valve.
For two barrel operation, + valve is open, and \---/ valve is set to connect barrel 2 to after the firing valve.

Bear in mind a barrel as a PC will work best if the gun is pointed up (assuming you put the connection to the \---/ valve at the back).

If you can figure out a way to do it with only one switching valve then kudos to you.

aEx155
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Re: more PC's?

Post by aEx155 » Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:01 pm

For your information cantab, this topic is almost a month old. Plus, the member who started is, hasn't been on since 5/20. Please check the dates in the upper-left corner of the last post and/or check the last login of the thread starter before posting.

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