I made a CPS 1100 and multi nozzle modded it

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steelboot
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I made a CPS 1100 and multi nozzle modded it

Post by steelboot » Fri Jun 26, 2009 8:51 pm

I decided to put the 1000's PC into the 2100. Everything went pretty smooth.

Then I decided to give my new 1100 more nozzles. I followed Ben's guide on this website (http://www.sscentral.org/mods/multi-nozzle.html) and everything went pretty well. Though I haven't gotten around to measuring output on the new nozzles yet, I have measured exact range.

Nozzle 1
estimated 6.5x
range: shot 1: 46 ft.
shot 2: 49 ft.
shot 3: 51 ft.

Nozzle 2
estimated at least 10x
range: shot 1: 33 ft.
shot 2: 32 ft.
shot 3: 33 ft.

Pics up at my blog as soon as my dad finishes with the camera.

http://flashflooders.blogspot.com/
Last edited by steelboot on Sat Jun 27, 2009 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Silence
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Re: I made a CPS 1100 and multi nozzle modded it

Post by Silence » Fri Jun 26, 2009 9:01 pm

No K-mod or anything? Pretty good results, then. I'd personally prefer a vanilla CPS 1000, though.

Any clue what the ranges were before the mod? Or if you didn't measure them, is there a qualitative difference?

Also, I think there was some other convention for naming these things...this water gun would be a 1021 or 2110 or something. Not that it really matters.

steelboot
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Re: I made a CPS 1100 and multi nozzle modded it

Post by steelboot » Fri Jun 26, 2009 9:09 pm

Actually, since the 1000 PC in the 2100 body was the first documented integration ever, by Nibordude of SoakerMedia, he pronounced it the 1100. For all other integrations, it goes PC, then host.

So for a 2700 PC in a 1500 body, it would be called a 2715.

About ranges: iSoaker measure the range at 36 feet and I think Larami said 35. That's a great improvement. I could tell from seeing it anyways. DX said in an older SoakerMedia thread that a 30 balloon k-mod on a 2100 was about equal to an 1100, minus the hardening of the pump. I have to ask, what is a vanilla CPS 1000?
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C-A_99
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Re: I made a CPS 1100 and multi nozzle modded it

Post by C-A_99 » Fri Jun 26, 2009 9:47 pm

Parallel discussions across muiltiple forums... I hate those. (thus resulting in most of my war-related topics at iSoaker and tech related here) Nonetheless, I'll copy-paste my reply over.

By vanilla, he just means the original, untouched, stock blaster.

My 2100's PRV is a mess, but so is my 1000's. The 2100's can only take a few balloons before a really early PRV response, while the 1000 does the same thing, but somehow still pressurizes as the PRV is opening. (this was proven by shot testing) I'll need to take off some balloons off of that. Either way, I prefer k-modding over integration. There's simply too much to test and experiment with in an integration.

steelboot
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Re: I made a CPS 1100 and multi nozzle modded it

Post by steelboot » Fri Jun 26, 2009 11:37 pm

That sucks. C-A_99, have you ever done an integration? Because IMHO, integrations are far easier, faster, stronger, and more effective than k-modding.

K-modding

- pump stiffens a bit
- lower shot time
- (sometimes) improved range
- improved output
- extra pressure makes the PC more prone to breaking/popping

PC swap

- pump doesn't stiffen
- shot time remains constant, sometimes a slight dropoff
- improved range (10 - 15 ft.)
- (sometimes) improved output
- not prone to breaks/pop

My integration was perfect the first time. It didn't require ANY tweaking whatsoever. Whereas with a k-mod, I must have opened it up five times to change the amount of balloons because I wasn't happy with the results. But hey, everyone to their opinion.
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SSCBen
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Re: I made a CPS 1100 and multi nozzle modded it

Post by SSCBen » Fri Jun 26, 2009 11:50 pm

Sounds interesting. I always appreciate seeing more information about a little known modification.

To be honest though I never bought into the supposed PC swap benefit. I'd like to see some cold hard statistical numbers demonstrating a significant increase in range or output.

I don't see how similar pressure chambers can be switched resulting in greater power for one water gun. To say that the pump doesn't get harder and the water gun is not more prone to breaking indicates that the pressure isn't increased. In that case, what increases the range? Maybe you could explain steelboot because this is something I never understood.
Last edited by SSCBen on Sat Jun 27, 2009 12:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

steelboot
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Re: I made a CPS 1100 and multi nozzle modded it

Post by steelboot » Sat Jun 27, 2009 12:49 am

I'm not too sure how it works either. You're right, there must be more pressure. That is there because the 1000 PC is an eentsy bit thicker than the 2100, but that's sort of like a k-mod, isn't it? But a k-mod is different because my CPS 2100's pump became stiff with the k-mod but not with the PC swap.

But, the point is, range is increased. And that's enough for me. The range on this thing is a bit further than my friend's CPS 1500. Heck, I could use it for sniping if I wanted to (there are a few great sniping spots in our neighbourhood so don't flame saying sniping in WW isn't possible because it can be).

As for what powers the range, ask DX or Nibor. They came up with the mod. BTW, I don't think PC swaps really change the output.
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C-A_99
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Re: I made a CPS 1100 and multi nozzle modded it

Post by C-A_99 » Sat Jun 27, 2009 1:19 am

I tried swapping my 1000 and 1200 PC's once. It didn't make much of a difference to either of them, but I didn't k-mod any of them. That's about where I stopped with it.

A PRV is going to open at a certain pressure anyway, regardless of the PC, so any range boost from a PC swap may not work on a certain gun if it's PRV is set to open at a lower pressure.

I never had any pump problems. They hardly became more resistant after adding the balloons on. (with exception to the PRV issue on the 1000) As for breakability, the only risk is when the PC is of lower pressure put into a gun where the PRV is set to release at a higher pressure. This presents a risk of pumping the PC case to blow open.

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SSCBen
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Re: I made a CPS 1100 and multi nozzle modded it

Post by SSCBen » Sat Jun 27, 2009 1:36 am

I believe there was some discussion before about this modification and the consensus was that it allows you to get performance characteristics of one water gun in a different package. For example, the CPS 1500 generally has a stronger PC than the 1000 so putting its PC in the 1000 would result in a power increase. The 1000 is smaller than the 1500 so this may be advantageous.

The differences between the CPS 1000 and CPS 2100 in power as far as I can tell are negligible, so I see no reason for the 10 to 15 foot range increase other than either the new nozzle assembly being more efficient or the CPS 2100 having better laminators (both have good ones as far as I know).

As usual, a control test is necessary to gauge any improvement claims. For all we know your 1000 had a similar average range to the modified 2100. In fact, I'm willing to bet this is what's happening.

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Re: I made a CPS 1100 and multi nozzle modded it

Post by steelboot » Sat Jun 27, 2009 2:02 am

My CPS 1000 hits around 42 ft.

My Theory

The 1000 PC is stronger than the 2100 PC, while the internals and stream lamination of the 2100 are superior to those of the 1000. 42 ft. 1000 PC + stronger internals = 5-10 range boost.

I can assure, I am NOT lying about the range. Maybe my custom nozzle helped a bit (it probably did), but I really don't care about why it has such a great range, I'm more caught up on that it HAS a great range and that I can use it.

@ C-A_99: For your PC swap to be successful, you must use a strong PC (1000, 1500) and put it into strong internals (2100). Because the 1000 and the 1200 are so similar and their PCs are almost exactly the same, it's no wonder your mod didn't go that well.

DX stated on a SoakerMedia thread that the strongest PC was the CPS 1500's and that the strongest body/internals, in other words, the best host, was the CPS 2100, so therefore, the CPS 1521 was the best integration (the 1500 PC in the 2100 body).

That's my take.
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Silence
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Re: I made a CPS 1100 and multi nozzle modded it

Post by Silence » Sat Jun 27, 2009 2:04 am

I had the same questions about the pump pressure. Also: why should one type of mod improve output but not necessarily range, while the other type improves range but not necessarily output? Provided the diameter of the tubes stays the same, the two ought to be mutually exclusive.

And when we talk about improved performance for the integration, are we looking at the improvement over the PC provider or over the PC recipient?

Anyway, I'm glad you've seen increased ranges with the integration. I'm still interest in photos or pre-mod statistics, though.

Edit: Saw your post.

I've actually read that the CPS 1200 had the "strongest" (or most forgiving) internals, apparently thanks to a pressure release valve that triggers only at higher pressures. The CPS 2700 is apparently the exact opposite. I'm not sure how many guns were tested to verify the claim, though.

I do believe that some CPS water guns had stronger bladders than others – the CPS 1500/1700 is a good candidate. It's probably much harder to test internal strength, though. Size is probably a better reason for building a 1521 than anything else.

Once again, glad to hear it worked out well, and your explanation is plausible...but it's always nice to know for sure how well this mod or that mod works.
Last edited by Silence on Sat Jun 27, 2009 2:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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cantab
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Re: I made a CPS 1100 and multi nozzle modded it

Post by cantab » Sat Jun 27, 2009 5:06 pm

C-A_99 wrote:the only risk is when the PC is of lower pressure put into a gun where the PRV is set to release at a higher pressure. This presents a risk of pumping the PC case to blow open.
Surely that's not the case in a CPS. In a CPS, as you keep pumping, the bladder expands and the pressure doesn't increase much. This holds until the PC hits the casing walls. At that point, trying to pump will result in pressure being dramatically increased, and the PRV will activate.

The PRV needs to kick in before any internal components break. But when you do an integration, the PRV remains from the host. Do you bring over the donor PC case or not?
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steelboot
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Re: I made a CPS 1100 and multi nozzle modded it

Post by steelboot » Sat Jun 27, 2009 5:53 pm

Pics up at the link I provided to my blog on my first post in this thread. (flashflooders.blogspot.com)

I kept the 2100 PC case in for the 1000 PC. They are the exact same size.
Last edited by steelboot on Sat Jun 27, 2009 6:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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SSCBen
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Re: I made a CPS 1100 and multi nozzle modded it

Post by SSCBen » Sat Jun 27, 2009 7:17 pm

steelboot, I think your ranges are accurate. However, I doubt that the range will be statistically significantly higher than the CPS 1000 pre-PC-swap. My CPS 1000 can shoot a distance of 40 to 45 feet without much difficulty. Combine that with the right nozzle diameter and the range could increase up to 50 feet or beyond. That I believe is where most of your benefit is from, not the PC swap.

Anyway, like most pseudosciences there are some truths behind PC swaps. The CPS 1000 may generally have a stronger pressure chamber and the CPS 2100 may have an improved laminator assembly. In that case, yes, getting the best of both is advantageous. But saying either without actually testing is speculation, especially about the laminators. Laminators generally don't have much difference in performance between them.

steelboot
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Re: I made a CPS 1100 and multi nozzle modded it

Post by steelboot » Sat Jun 27, 2009 10:07 pm

The nozzle diameter of my 6.5x nozzle is almost the exact same as the 2100.You do have a point about nozzle sizes, though. I am going to drill a water-conserving nozzle (2-3x) tomorrow and see what kind of range I can get.
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