collossos on a Flash Flood

Threads about water gun modifications.
Godzillasoaker65
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collossos on a Flash Flood

Post by Godzillasoaker65 » Sun Feb 11, 2007 1:29 am

Well i'm back for a while (I need a break from Nerf), and I figured I'd come back here for my old hobby. Since it's winter I figured I should get my modding done now, and with a soaker that's available, in case I screw up. I've actually already started but I need a little help. So far I have 6 layers on the bladder and it's working fine with out the pressure release valve gone, but i'm wondering if I should reinforce the internals, and how much I should pump up to after I do get rid of the release valve. I've never modded a soaker beyond the point of actually having to take the release valve out so I was just wondering. another thing I want to do is expand the casing a little but for now I just want to colossus it and get some more range. I've never really seen stats for a modded FF so if anyone knows, what ranges should I be expecting? Right now i'm getting around 40 feet with both nozzles (I took out the screen mesh on the upper nozzle) If it's not to much trouble could someone also post a link to that pic of where to cut, because I can't seem to find it and all of my FF's internals are orange like someone elses were.

Any help would be greatly appreciated

Zilla65
Last edited by Godzillasoaker65 on Sun Feb 11, 2007 3:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Silence
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Post by Silence » Sun Feb 11, 2007 2:11 am

From what I've heard, the #1 improvement to FF range is a nozzle drill. I'm not sure exactly what the best nozzle size is, but I'd guess 3/8" or 1/4" diameter, especially with a colossus.

Reinforcing the internals probably isn't necessary. Also, I can't say how much you should pump the gun up to with the colossused internals, but maybe you could pump it with the casing open to see. Good luck and welcome back!

Godzillasoaker65
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Post by Godzillasoaker65 » Sun Feb 11, 2007 3:21 pm

Thanks for the welcome Silent Guy :)

Well I was testing out the gun without anything else done to it and, I ran into a problem. When I pumped it up the bladder just flew off of the clamp. Luckily I was able to fix this by putting a thick layer of teflon tape around the bladder part that goes into the clamp, and it has held up for 30+ full primes. I don't really think it's going to blow, but it's just going to be extra effort when I put on more layers. I don't know why but i'm finding that putting the layers on is very easy. I'm using strips that cover the whole bladder, except the part that goes into the clamp and all I do is spray them with silicone spray. After you stretch the piece over that thick part, all I really need to do is just slide on the rest.
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SSCBen
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Post by SSCBen » Sun Feb 11, 2007 5:11 pm

Welcome back!

Nozzle drilling is your best bet for added range. I'm not sure that the Flash Flood could support a nozzle larger than about 3/8 inches due to the low internal diameter of the water gun though, so don't use a nozzle larger or the same size as the pipes.

Reinforcing the internals is not necessary. People did that a few years ago because they didn't think the internals would be able to take the added pressure. Sadly, at the time they did not know what most water guns could handle. Most water guns can handle the extra pressure. Some water guns have weak internals to begin with, and "reinforcing" (i.e. coating everything in epoxy) does not add much strength from what I know. The best thing to do would be avoiding water guns that are known to have problems with added pressure (such as the CPS 2700) and don't go crazy with the layers. A few layers is beneficial. More is just asking for trouble.

Try a few more layers and see if you can pump the gun. If you can't get any pressure, the PRV is working at that level and should be removed. I don't think exceeding about 5-7 layers is a very good idea though because at that point you're not helping the performance much. Since you seem to be about at that point, I would suggest stopping. Due to the limitations of the design, you can not expect this water gun to perform on the absolute highest level, unlike others that are designed a little better such as the older CPS water guns. There is a point where more layer is hitting the limits of performance and you might be getting there.

Also, adding teflon tape over the bladder's barb would actually make the bladder more likely to pop off, especially with a thick layer. Teflon tape is used on threaded (screw on) fittings to help seal and make unthreaded easier. And on threaded fittings, using more teflon tape actually damages the fitting. The problem most likely was that the clamp wasn't put on very tight to begin with and you tightened it. I'd remove the clamp again to remove the teflon tape.

If you are using strips, try to layer them as evenly as possible. I've been told and seen times where someone used shorter strips of about 1 to 1.5 inches that wasn't very even where one part of the bladder inflated while the rest did not. That's pretty much the best tip I can give.

Hope this helped. Let us know if you have any other questions or trouble.

:)

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Silence
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Post by Silence » Sun Feb 11, 2007 5:45 pm

Oh, sorry, I meant 3/16", not 3/8". Sorry. I agree that 3/8" would probably be too large, especially given the small size of the pressure chamber.

I'm under the impression that you put the tape around the rubber and put the clamp over the tape. If that's the case, then it might help a bit. I'd take Ben's advice though.

The use of long pieces of rubber should help avoid uneven expansion. The rubber would also be forced to expand lengthwise, likely increasing the force it applies.

I believe somebody once replaced the bladder with LRT, but I'm not sure of that.

Godzillasoaker65
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Post by Godzillasoaker65 » Sun Feb 11, 2007 9:06 pm

Today I think i'm just going to drill the nozzle, but i'm not sure as to how much I drill, like do I just drill the tip, or do I drill down through the hole thing? About the teflon tape I put it on there mainly to get a tighter fit with the clamp, and because if the bladder is near the point of blowing off it will just push against the casing for it. (It's too hard to explain but i'll get a pic soon) I'll probably give it a go without it for now I guess. I won't really have to worry about the bladder only expanding in certain parts because my strips cover the whole bladder. I think i'll try putting 1 or 2 layers more on the most, and if that has the check valve kick in then I'll freeze it, or maybe even if it doesn't because eventually I want to get rid of that casing so I can fill the bladder more. Similar to this:http://z8.invisionfree.com/soakermedia/ ... wtopic=351
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Silence
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Post by Silence » Sun Feb 11, 2007 10:42 pm

I would not disable the pressure release valve. These days, nobody K-mods or colossuses to that level, but partly because most of the CPS line is unavailable. With the pressure release valve intact, you don't need to worry about exploding bladders or anything. If the valve is disabled, then the PC casing will explode as soon as the bladder hits the walls.

You can remove the PC casing without disabling the pressure release valve. Also, if you add more layers and then can't pump without activating the pressure release valve, I would just remove a layer or two. Good luck!

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SSCBen
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Post by SSCBen » Sun Feb 11, 2007 10:50 pm

How deep to drill is an issue. I myself am unaware of how deep is good for a Flash Flood. Try drilling in a little bit and then checking to see how deep you went. Test it out. If it shoots weird, drill a little deeper. If it turns out you may have screwed up the nozzle, stop drilling and fill in the hole with epoxy. Let the epoxy set for at least 24 hours and then drill another smaller nozzle.

Are you Flash Flood internals different than this Flash Flood other than the color of the internals? If it looks the same other than the color, drill until the tip of the drill bit goes completely through, but not further than, the orange part of the nozzle.

The tubing and barb are designed to be used together. If they don't fit, something's wrong with the gun. The lubricating properties of the teflon tape actually make it more likely to slide off (that's why it's teflon tape). I understand what you're talking about when you say the bladder is going to hit the end. Just realize that the teflon tape isn't keeping the bladder on. ;)

Godzillasoaker65
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Post by Godzillasoaker65 » Sun Feb 11, 2007 11:11 pm

Next time I open it up i'm just going to take the teflon tape off. I drilled the nozzle through like you said and it didn't really add any range (actually decreased by a foot), because the stream breaks up a little. I'm going to add one of those tiny straws that you can find in dollar stores and see if it laminates the stream more. I'm pretty much happy with the gun right now, I just want that stream to be better and maybe one more layer of innertube and no CVF. I never really expected ranges much higher than 40 because I wanted to use it as a close range weapon, and add a backpack. So it's safe to take off that casing for the bladder so it expands slightly more?
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Silence
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Post by Silence » Sun Feb 11, 2007 11:22 pm

I would PM Rook (iSoaker.com) or CA-99 (iSoaker.com, here, and waterwarfare.com) to see how they did their nozzle drills. I've only heard good things about it, that's why I was so intrigued.

The Teflon tape should be fine, in my opinion. The clamp only applied force normal to the tubing barb; and the low friction of Teflon is null since it's not shear force. The bladder is trying to expand out more than somehow sliding out from underneath the clamp. And if it ain't broke, don't fix it...

Godzillasoaker65
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Post by Godzillasoaker65 » Sun Feb 11, 2007 11:31 pm

Actually I think I screwed up, because I looked down the hole and it looks a little crooked. I'll probably PM them if I can't get it to work, but i'm pretty confident about those straws, and even if I can't get it to work it's not too bad of a stream. Oh yeah, how do you think it would effect the top nozzle if I decreased the size? I think if I made it 3/16" it would get better range than the lower nozzle because it has a straighter path from the PC to the nozzle.
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Silence
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Post by Silence » Mon Feb 12, 2007 12:39 am

Oh, definitely. Many people do the nozzle selector mod to the Flash Flood nozzle on top. You can do anything with such a nozzle--switch sizes, do a riot blast, launch stuff out of a tube, whatever. Definitely a worthwhile upgrade.

For the main nozzle, I would just fill it with epoxy and let it dry overnight, then drill again. 'Tis a shame it got messed up. I'm not very good at drilling nozzles either, as my homemade nozzles are not smooth at all.

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C-A_99
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Post by C-A_99 » Mon Feb 12, 2007 3:29 am

I didn't do too great a good job on my nozzle drill (probably because I screwed it up earlier before drilling), the flow is fairly turbulent. Plus my poorly done repair job on the trigger didn't help it either. (apparently, the rubber bands were getting too weak and the trigger would lock up a lot) Anyways, just find a drill bit slightly larger than the FF nozzle and do it quickly, and as cleanly as possible, perpendicular to the surface. Also, don't drill it too deep, about up to a centimeter down is as far as you should go, though the actual part where the nozzle is small is about half a centimeter long. (the piece is like a cone sort of shape) Once you clear the passage, clean it up a bit.

I'm not exactly sure about the PC, I thought it was tightly gripped on by screws or something, sounds like it's gripped on only by O-rings, like it was on older CPS's.

Godzillasoaker65
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Post by Godzillasoaker65 » Wed Feb 14, 2007 7:52 pm

I have fixed the nozzle, by just using the drill to do some fine tuning to the top and then fired alot to get some debree out. Overall i'm happy with the gun except for the shot time. Taking off the casing around the bladder should fix it, but i'm not sure if the pressure realease valve would kick in before I got more water pumped into the bladder or not. Has anyone ever tried it without taking out the pressure release valve? I'm pretty much guessing the bladder can take alot more water in it due to this:http://z8.invisionfree.com/soakermedia/ ... wtopic=512. The only thing is that he did a CVF, so I have no idea if something like that(No I don't plan on taking THAT much of the case)would work without a CVF.
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Silence
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Post by Silence » Wed Feb 14, 2007 8:24 pm

I wouldn't disable the pressure release valve for two reasons.

1) It will probably work perfectly as it is. Since it works fine now without the PRVD, and since the force is constant, it shouldn't open the valve if you expand the bladder more. Of course, at maximum capacity, the rubber will stop expanding, and the valve should release the extra water before the bladder ruptures. Like if it was inside the original case.

2) You can't add the pressure release valve again afterwards. Better safe than sorry.

I'd also look into doing the backpack mod or buying the Aquapack to increase the reservoir capacity. Pretty pointless having a PC the size of the reservoir, even if you pump and then fill again.

EDIT: What ranges are you getting now? Just curious. ;)

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